What would you like to see in Wrath of the Righteous?

So, I’ve been reviewing the evidence I haven and I’ve narrowed down my suspicions about Owlcat’s next game to less than 4 choices, and the most ambitious of those is Wrath of the Righteous.

So, given that Wrath is on the shortlist, what do you guys most want to see in it? Take Nothing for Granted. Characters might be cut, Backstories might be Altered. Systems might disappear.

So, assuming that the next game is Wrath? What stuff from the original AP do you want to see most? What New Systems do you want to see? Classes? Races? New characters? Arcs? Things your Table did to expand the AP?

Personally I want a Lesbian Threesome with Irabeth and Annevia that’s only available to Female characters. Also a Gay Threesome with Sosiel Vaenic and Aron Kir for men only. I also want Mythic power, and a more robust Familiar system. Having more feats and spells would be cool too.

I feel like there won’t be enough Dinosaurs though, which makes me sad.

I personally love and like most for “low level” game experience. That is one of the main reasons why I loved so much Baldur’s Gate (first one).

So mythic rules… …err, I do understand why it is so great and people love it. But for that I choose G.U.R.P.S. Supers or something like that (yeah, I know, it was late 80’s early 90’s, there are now way better settings and super/mutant hero systems but still).

Maybe if enemies are made smart, with kind of same rules as players can be made? I mean just taking one of the reviews:
"
[i]
Then the other powers – which were fun but also the real source of mass power – were the ones giving us extra actions. Lots of extra actions. That’s how we’d really kill stuff. I could double move then full attack then get an extra attack.

The mythic rules as written are OK. But Wrath of the Righteous did not make the best use of them.

First of all – mythic enemies are supposed to be legendary enemies. We ended up fighting mythic bugs. Not bug-men named the King of Biting Ants or whatever – just big locusts they gave mythic tiers to. Super stupid.

Second – they did not use mythic flaws at all. I was hoping we’d have a lot of fights that required smarts. You know, a giant minotaur we just can’t hurt until we figure out he’s only vulnerable to mistletoe sprigs, that kind of stuff. That’s covered in the mythic rules. Nope! Not a single damn opponent had those. The answer was always, always, “just pour on more hit points worth of damage.” That’s extremely unfortunate and I don’t understand the thinking there. I know the Paizo designers are smarter than that. Is it “well some players are dumb and if they can’t just hack their way through everything they’ll get TPKed and/or frustrated and that’s bad for sales?” I don’t know, but it made mythic combat – which should allegedly be more interesting that just pure high-level combat – even more predictable and “mash the buttons till it dies.” Well, this AP buyer would like to request some that require two brain cells to rub together and not just DPS.[/i]
"

So problem easily come “we are really OP now where is challenge?” then GM (or module maker) understand it allso and make enemies who are just err… …mythic and “epic” but they just have more HP or some small resistance. So I guess I would like to see (if we get this adventure path) mythic enemies what you can not kill untill you can find out what is way to kill them.

I hope and suggest for Rise for the Runelords (they have released anniversary edition from it)
Taken from some random net rerview:
"
[i]So Why is it Rated So Highly?
Most (if not all) online forums recommend this adventure. What is the reason for its popularity? There are several reasons for this
> This is a classic high fantasy adventure. You start at level 1 and wind up defeating an evil that threatens the world.
> The adventure takes familiar troupes and makes them new. The goblins in book one are legitimately different but still evil greenskins. The ogre kin monsters are evil with a touch of eccentric. The adventure is safe but not predictable.
> The adventure will run well with any combination of character classes. Unlike some adventures where a cleric is mandatory, or others where a rouge is almost useless, you can run this with any 4 players and it will go well.
> The adventure is a ‘little bit of everything’ in terms of design. There is a murder mystery, a ‘save the town’, a mega dungeon, and a sandbox. This is good, if a player doesn’t like sandbox’s, well that part will be over soon enough. However if as a DM there is something in that list you really don’t like (such as myself I really dislike mega dungeons) be prepared to do some serious reworking. I decided to give megadungeons another chance and this one was as bad as I remember.

Conclusion
If you are looking for a traditional high fantasy campaign this is a good option. The book is easy to use, and most of it assists in reduce prep time from a scratch built campaign. If you have players new to, or not particularly invested in roleplaying (or note taking) this is a good adventure to run.
[/i]"

True, nothing “truly new, change the rules, change what everyone have ever seen before in ©rpg or will ever see again” kind of stuff. But still. I understand that we most likely do not get Skull and Shackles (atleast yet, too close for Pillars of Eternity II as pirate setting and so)

So in Rise of the Runelords most people who have not played Pathfinder before would get they first touch for Sandpoint and maybe even world of Golarion (unless they have been playing this game and not scared away from bugs when game were released). They would (hopefully) learn plenty (well, more then goblin can count) facts from goblins and would get megadungeon (what people were asking for this game, getting it as DLC) and many other things.

Personally i just want to see the pathfinder book series brought to life through video games, into the spotlight and thrive. thrusting a rich world of adventure into the spotlight. it has so much potential. so i’d be happy to see any new AP.

I want Runelord Alderpash. It’d be neat to see a Lich Runelord.

I agree with @Pathfinder’s first point about low level play. I love starting at level 1 and that incredible feeling when you gain the next level and when you obtain a new and better piece of equipment. It all begins to feel value-less once you get to high levels.

Besides this, I want the usual: strong story and characters, character development, roleplaying, multiple ways for accomplishing goals, choices to be meaningful but without punishing you in a silly way.

Total agree!!!

Well, Wrath of the Righteous has low level play - as any Paizo AP it starts at level 1 and needs two books until level 7, 8 or so. But afterwards it becomes more extreme than usual APs, because of the mythic abilities and additional XP - the AP ends at 20, not at the usual 17 or 18.

Low level play definitely has its fans - hence people made up modes like E6, E8, P6 and P8 even before Pathfinder. In these modes, level progress is capped to level 6 or 8. If you get more XP, you can gain additional feats, but that’s pretty much it. I don’t see this happen as a computer game - people expect the full level range when they read “Pathfinder” or “Dungeons and Dragons”. But you might find a fitting online pen and paper campaign.

I’m really wary of them using the Mythic rules. I have no experience with them, but from what I understand they kinda break the original rules of Pathfinder with how powerful they are. That’s the point of them, which is fine, but I just don’t know that I want to see Owlcat go with such a complicated and powerful change to the rules for the second game - it could be really hard to balance and make fun. On top of that, there’s the problem of fan expectations - a lot of gamers expect that each sequel will keep most of the rules from the previous game, so if Owlcat uses Mythic tiers in the next game and then does a third game without them, there’s probably going to be a bunch of angry fans demanding that they be brought back even though they’re supposed to be the hook of Wrath of the Righteous. It’s maybe not the best approach to be so concerned about players misunderstanding a one-use set of rules like that, but it is a concern for me.

I honestly don’t know much about the overall story and flow of the AP to have much else in the way of commentary or hopes and dreams. I suppose that I hope we can get more excellent characters, which probably is a major focus anyways. Hopefully if we have another situation like the House at the Edge of Time and the fates of companions, any moments where companions affect each others’ fates is broadcast a bit better than what happened with Tristian and Jaethal - it made sense on paper, it just needed more story time devoted to their arguments than stuff like camping banter. It would be great to have more quests that can be solved with stuff outside of combat too - if anyone has played the Pillars of Eternity games, stuff like Raedric’s Hold or the quests where you can collect information and items to find alternate solutions are always a lot of fun.

So if you remember the user survey, My suspicion is that they might allow mythic for the Hero PC only. which might make things more interesting.

I think I’d be really interested in seeing what Owlcat can do with Mythic Rules. Part of the problem with the tabletop version is it didn’t get tested enough before release, and the mythic rules let you do some wild stuff. I think in a video game, they’ll have a better opportunity to test it in house and work out what’s too strong and what isn’t. Plus, having the restrictions that a video game world places on characters means you won’t have people derailing things like could happen in Tabletop (“I don’t want to be a hero anymore. Let’s go take over a kingdom!”).

I mean, I love Owlcat? But Testing prior to release wasn’t one of their big successes in Kingmaker. I’m sure that anything that needs testing will get done eventually. but that could be a year after release. So… That makes me worried.

I still want Mythic though.

I would love to see more distinct playable races: dhampirs, geniekin and ratfolk being super high on my list. Also, thriae, but that’s rather unlikely all things considered.

I like feeling powerful so bring on the mythic rules.

I’d also like to address the comment about carrying over rules from previous games it might be interesting doing kingdom building as you conquer the worldwound.

what are the mythic rules btw? if i might ask? I’m familiar with dnd rule set from back down to 2e but this game was my first foray into pathfinder. Also that’s a nifty idea Senko.

So Mythic rules are Pathfinders answer to Epic. Instead of additional levels after 20, Mythic is a parallel level system of 10 levels which are called tiers that you get for completing Mythic feats. Feats as in tasks. There are six paths that you can follow, each one granting your character a lot of power and the ability to ignore or change certain rules. Letting you do things like go twice in a single round of combat, for instance. The rules are actually kind of complex, but the big thing is that they make your character a lot more powerful than a character of that level would be. And more importantly Mystic rules can be applied to enemies as well. So for instance a crocodile can become a Mythic crocodile and instead of being a challenge for a 3rd level party can be a challenge for a 7th level party.

It also has a whole slew of really fun abilities that are not normally seen like not needing a physical spellbook to memorize spells as a wizard, fly through space, create your own pocket dimension, grant divine spells to your worshipers and my personal favorites not needing to eat/drink/sleep/breathe (multiple abilities there).

ah thank you, that sounds interesting and fun.

I would hope they use the fixes recommended by Legendary Games in their Mythic Heroes Handbook.

The mythic rules needed at least one or two more balance passes and more playtesting. Legendary Games did a much better job at this when they published their support material.

I don’t allow much 3rd party material at my table, but this I highly recommend.

This. I totally want this. One of my strong reason of playing rpgs are the pixel friends. I like to see how relationship begin, grow and how they influence one another and all that. Ro/Bro-mance wise.

Aside from that, I want to roleplay as Deliverer of Ragathiel XD… or meet the dude in person XD

ah i see your a person of culture, i too enjoy the interplay between relationships and where writing goes.