Sword and board cleric

Looking for some feedback on this build. Its a roleplay build based on wanting to play the Angel mythic path.

“Raised in monastery to fight. Showed no potential. Sent off as fodder for crusade and the game starts. Starts of with 1lvl of fighter and rest in cleric as divine power etc etc…”

I choose cleric instead of Warpriest for spellbook merge. Its not the end of the world if he does not do fantastic damage, but that he can hit a bit and stay in the front line. I play Turn Based most of the time.

Str - 19 > 22
Dex - 15 > 16
Con - 12
Int - 7
Wis - 15 > 16
Cha - 10

Background - Martial disciple
Deity - Iomedae (mostly for RP reason).

Fighter 1
1 - Dodge
2 - Combat reflexes
3 - Two weapon fighting

Crusader 19 (War domain)
2 Bonus feat - Shield bash
3 - Crane style
5 - Outflank
6 Bonus feat - Weapon focus (Longsword)
7 - Double slize
9 - Combat casting
9 - Bonus feat - Power attack

Mythic path Angel
1 - Impossible domain - Strength
2 - Mythic two weapon fighting
3 - Domain zealot

Thats as far as I have thought. I have a lvl 9 character I am respeccing to test the build so no clue where to take this next.

Questions:

  1. Will heavy armor mess up the Dex stats?
  2. Is it enough Dex or will I miss key Sword/Shield feats?
  3. With 1 lvl of fighter will I be able to get cleric lvl 9 spells? (and Angel lvl 10?)
  4. I choose Crusader for extra feats, maybe its better to stick with vanilla Cleric?
  5. Do I need combat casting for such build?

Thanks for reading!

  1. Heavy armor just give some penalty to mobility, athletic and stealth and there is most likely mithral fullplate in the game to maximize the use of all your dex.

  2. 15 Dex is enough all game long for two weapon fighting build. You can use a Dex item to get the requirement for imp. two weapon fighting and greater two weapon fighting. You just need to keep that dex item on to keep the feats active.

  3. Yes

  4. Iomedae is not a powerful god for domains. So going crusader seem a good choice imo. Personally i would go for Nobility as impossible domain, especially if you plan to play in turn-based mode. The level 8 ability is quite powerful and unique.

  5. No.

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  1. No, if you wear mithril plate. There is also one at least one mithril chainmail around. DEX offers also better intiative, ranged touch attacks and reflex saves, so it isn’t wasted, if the AC doesn’t take it all into account.
  2. Some feats require DEX 13, but the only high DEX feats are two-weapon fighting, which require 15/17/19 respectively. If you cover the missing amount with a belt to get the feat, you cannot remove it for something else, or you lose the use of the feat, until you have again the required DEX.
  3. You need to be level 17 as a cleric to access level 9 spells, and angel has nothing to do with your regular class levels.
  4. Up to you.
  5. No. Maybe. The thing is, you can safely cast defensively up to two spell levels below your maximum, only then you have a chance of failure. In the end this will be the 8th and 9th level spells. If you plan to cast your highest spells within melee range, you may want to take it, if not you don’t. In turn-based mode you can also sometimes use a 5’ foot step to get out of reach.

Since you have planned only for one attack with the shield (I don’t see impr. and gr. TWF there), the whole thing is only cosmetic anyway. I wouldn’t waste all those feats for a single bonus attack with something that doesn’t even have special attack powers. And with “all those feats” I mean double slice and mythic TWF.
On the other side, if you are keen to be a supercaster by merging spellbooks, you are missing all the important caster feats. Without spell penetration (best go all the way to mythic) you won’t get far, and WIS 16 is also sub-par for a main caster. You need 19 for 9th level spells, and whatever you can maximise it to have a small chance of the mobs failing their saves. If you are set on being melee and only fulfill a buff role, the spellbook merge is not important.
I went all the way on my casters (+9 DC above and beyond the call of duty & full spell penetration line) and still can fail to get through. The demons can have frustratingly high SR (one in the demon city had 35 as example) and saves of +18 to +26 happen all the time.
I must also warn you that you will do very little damage. The AC of the enemies is high to very high, and way above what the bestiary has in it. My last group of mobs included an AC 48 mob (not a boss). As a BAB 15 class without features to increase your chances to hit you won’t hit much, and you also have no damage mechanic built into the class like a ranger, rogue or slayer.

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Thanks for the reply. I would take the imp. and gr. TWF now that I understand a Dex belt would make it possible.

I saw some screenshots for the Angels spells and most seems to have the text “Not affected by targets spell resistance” so I my thinking was to take my offensive spells from that and use the Cleric spells for buffs and defense.

I suspected the build would not make much damage but I would have hoped it would hit some at least. It is not a build made to be the most efficient and that is why I play on a lower difficulty. But still it would be usless?
Will only full BAB classes or min/max builds be able to hit anything at normal difficulty? :confused:

Not everything, but the demons have all high AC.

All of the melee classes have some form of bonus damage, which makes them effective. That can be the pally’s smite (powerful, limited in use), the rogue’s sneak attack (high, needs to hit & flank), the fighter’s weapon specialization (low, but always & everywhere), the ranger’s chosen enemy (limited by mob type), and so on. They also have typically access to bonus feats or fighting styles that circumvent feat prerequisites. Rangers can get all the TWF feats with DEX 10 if they want to, e.g., which makes them less stat dependent dual-wielders. With bonus feats they get to hit, AC, or whatever, which all adds up to being more effective.
My fighter 17 is an archer and has +38 to hit. Arue, who is a ranger, has +30, my oracle has +19. With the high to hit the fighter can afford deadly aim and more damage, while still being able to hit well.

A BAB 15 class without a number of bonus feats and any damage mechanic cannot keep up with that. You can make up partially with buffs like divine power, righteous might, good hope, prayer, bard songs, etc., which is your advantage as caster (clerics have the most buffs), but many of them are shortlived and you need time to buff up. If you have to do it in combat, you have usually to stick with one or two.
I have an oracle and a bard on the team, but I don’t expect them to do much damage. They aid me with archery (I specced them for it) to finish off almost dead enemies when not casting, so that the heavy hitters can move on.
Major casters do much better with their spells than their arms. But since many people want to do what you have in mind, there have been several attempts to create hybrid classes like the warpriest, paladin, eldritch knight, bloodrager, or use multiclassing (usually with prestige classes) to cherrypick a feature or two.

You are right about the angel spells waving spell resistance in most cases, which is nifty. But they all allow still a saving throw, where your WIS comes into play.

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Just as a note, but I wanted to throw this out there -

Devilbane Priest (I believe that is the name) is, imo, by far the best Cleric Archetype for WotR. Including for “Fighter Clerics”.

Heavy Armor Proficiency is good even for TWF, and it gets Spell Pen and Greater Spell Pen for free - and there are several Angel Spells that deal massive AOE damage even if the enemy successfully saves, meaning Spell Pen is all you need to make them work.

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I just ran a crusader-angel to end of beta. Kukri (for the cold iron 3+ elemental kukri from the lab) with elemental barrage. I went with protection donain as I wanted to be able to cast seamantle. greater enduring spells, mythic weapon focus, mythic spell penetration, leading strike, mythic metamagic (extend) for mythic feats. Piercing aura, extended holy sword. Could hit most things fully buffed. Good damage. Used the angel ranged touch attack for umbral dragon etc. Finally got to CL 25 and cast extended eagle soul and divine power (to confirm 24 hour duration) then never got to use it as beta ended lol. Buffed AB for first two attacks was something like 43 from memory. Unfortunately Avengers blessing and some other angel spells aren’t extendable currently. There are some awesome chapter four charge boots that would make strength domain and points in athletics useful.

Sounds great! What stats did you take and did you do a mix of combat and spell feats?

Was playing a fun rather than optimal build. Went hungerseed tiefling, dymped charisma (left chanelling to daeran) and used acolyte for background. Think it was something like 19/13/12/12/18/7 but might be wrong. Skill focus persuasion and lore religion(would switch to athletics in future run) ; martial weapon prof; weapon focus (and greater) kukri; outflank; combat reflexes; seize the moment; heavy armour prof (when I found half plate of flow which gives evasion).