I enjoyed Kingmaker, and you do have time to finish the game, but I really dislike having a timer forcing me forward.
Great suggestion, happy to second that one.
Honestly Time Limits are almost never fun, mostly just stressful.
Honestly, I love “Time Limits” feature. The Persona 3, 4, 5 have this feature.
Baldur’s Gate 2 and Divinity Original Sin 2 usually handled this kind of thing through narration (“we need your help urgently!”) rather than by actually imposing time limits on players. Hopefully WotR will follow their lead and provide players a sense of urgency without limiting their ability to explore.
I actually enjoyed the timers. It stopped you from faffing about and coming back overpowered. Not to mention it made the world feel organic in a way.
What probably should have happened however, is them actually implementing a working calendar. Because it still doesn’t work.
But it makes the game world more real
Why would I want to make something I go to to escape the real world to be more like the real world?
Some people find the dissonance between having a narrative that’s telling you “Your kingdom is doomed if you don’t act immediately!” when the truth is that you can spend all the time you want doing anything else without any sort of penalty immersion breaking.
The absence of any sort of time limit also really didn’t mesh well with how kingdom management worked, with it being actual in-game time passed. At least, it wouldn’t have mesh well if the developers wanted the player to have to make meaningful choices about time spent and/or try to keep players from abusing rewards from the system to break the game balance. This is why most of the Stronghold management events in PoE were actually based on quest and plot progression rather than actual time passed.
I agree with FoeFaller. Having zero timers when you are clearly spending time traveling and doing other activities just doesn’t make sense. The “bad guys” wouldn’t wait for you to build up your strength without consequence.
I’d rather have timers for the main quest as an optional component. Sometimes, you just want to experiment and try something when you feel ready.
It’s hard to imagine a BG2 where players are given a fixed amount of time to rescue Imoen or a DOS2 where players are given a fixed amount of time to exit Fort Joy. I disagree 100% that those games “seemed less realistic” because there wasn’t a numerical countdown. Moreover one of the biggest praises those games get is for the way they facilitate open-ended exploration. Heck, half the fun of games like this lies in the exploration and it is a mistake to make players feel like they can’t risk exploring for fear of a countdown being missed.
Fallout’s a useful contrast, as people are still complaining 20 years later about how its water chip timer makes everything feel rushed. Yes, those of us who’ve played it a bunch of times know how to finish Fallout in days/weeks and can reassure people the timer doesn’t matter all that much, just as we’ve reassured people in this forum on more than one occasion that the Stag Lord timer isn’t a big deal. But it still seems like a big deal in a first-ever run-through and I’d even argue it is a big deal, having watched several players struggle to navigate the world map to such a degree that they run out of time. If it were up to me, I’d just have the nymph tell you it’s urgent but then let players explore as they see fit.
I can sympathize with people that didn’t like the timers in kingmakers but i think that you should admit that without timer the sense of “gods your kingdom is falling apart around you, DO SOMETHING!” would have been completely lost
There is an “Invincible Kingdom” setting. I’m sure it disables the ability to get difficulty achievements though. Actually, I am unsure if it actually stops the timer from reaching 0 or merely prevents your kingdom from failing in all situations but the timer running out. But the point I am trying to make here is that they have already put in difficulty modifiers to assist players who want or need more effective time.
I understand why timers were necessary in Kingmaker, but I hated them if I’m being completely honest. I really hope that there aren’t any timers in Wrath, or at least, make it a toggle.
I agree completely — with Kingmaker, having Time Limits on certain quests made perfect sense in lore terms, and thus helped to create even stronger immersion!
When something’s super-urgent in story terms and lore-wise, like for example needing to resolve something before your rival rulers can get wind of it even being in the works, personally I find that not having any “Ignore the urgency at your own peril”-consequences damages the immersion quite profoundly.
On top of that, I didn’t encounter even a single time limit in PK:KM that I thought were even remotely too short; quite the opposite actually, most of them were more than fair, bordering rather on the implausible again… three months to defeat the Bandit Lord when they were worried that the other Nobles might learn of their plan seemed way too long actually, as I highly doubt such a grand plan could ever be kept secret for that long to begin with.
Anyhow, without any timed quests, Kingmaker wouldn’t have come even close to the sense of urgency to actually urgent, important quests as it did with those timers.
It was also very cool from a gameplay perspective to see people actually leave after having told you they could only stay a little while… that beautifully reinforces two important gameplay aspects:
- You should listen when people tell you something important
- Your actions should always carry consequences, and preferably ones that aren’t obvious from the start
Granted, it wasn’t already in for launch, but at least nowadays, for experimentation, there’s the Endless Dungeon for exactly that purpose.
It’s actually pretty much perfect for trying out different builds, and if you wanted to try out different builds at a certain level with certain skills, you could always use Bag of Tricks or other means of cheats there, outside of your campaign savegame, to keep that clean and cheat-free, while still being able to experiment with builds to your heart’s content.
It would be great if they could implement something similar right from the start this time, for people who need or want to try out different builds this way first, but we’ll see… time, as ever, is a luxury in game development.
i wholeheartedly agree. i like to play games and enjoying it at my own pace. shouldn’t have this force timer. it’s not enjoyable.
I don’t mind timers in general (Fallout and Fallout 2 both had them and they worked fine).
And you could do effectively everything in Kingmaker even with them becomming a problem … if you handled things correctly.
But the first time I got a game over from them (without giving spoilers a specific ritual ended my game) I didn’t know that there even was a timer.
My thinking would be a difficulty setting: Hidden Timers, Known Timers, No Timers.
This would allow people to choose if they want to take there time and do what they want, feel the narrative pushing them on, or know when the game requires them to push on so that they can take their time up till that point.
Great idea, that way everyone can play the way they prefer!