Please, make it shorter and bit easier this time

Here’s the thing:
I need time to play most of good/neutral/lawful content, but unless game is significantly shorter than KM, I don’t think I will have the will.
One thing to note is also the difficulty: make normal difficulty normal again.
Thank you!

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Well difficulty isn’t going to be an issue because there was an easier difficulty than normal in kingmaker and there’s no shame in playing on easy. They have confirmed the game will be much shorter I’m guessing in the ball park of 30-60 hours, though I have no way of knowing.

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I understand what you mean but for me I sincerely hope the game will be long, very long … Epic stories need long script imo.

When it comes to difficulty the system was ok in kingmaker I think.


It may be 60hrs but I dont think it can be less and im very happy about it. The alpha was only two of the six confirmed chapters and not even finished. And a lot of aditional stuff promised from the kickstarter. Army combat, crusader managment, the aditional random acounters and the complete lack of companion quests in the alpha. My guess would be an 80hr game which would still be considerably shorter than Kingmaker. For me personly I would enjoy it beeing long

For the dificulty its only important theres a wide variety. I want it realy challenging and hope they wont make the higher dificulties easier than Kingmaker. But its also important to have lower dificulties. There are dificulties below normal for a reason. But I think they are managing the variety and options for custom dificulty good

They have already stated the game will take less time to finish.

I appreciate the granularity that KM’s difficulty system had (eventually). The time requirement isn’t too much of an issue for me though shorter playthroughs tend to translate into more playthroughs. KM for example I only got about halfway through a second run before burning out (though to be fair the first game I had to reload (losing 10+ hours of progress) due to the bug where the story didnt progress). In contrast many of the 30-ish hour RPGs I’ve played get several playthroughs.

Either way is fine as long as the game itself is enjoyable!

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I don’t think difficulty will be an issue purely because Kingmaker had such a wide variety of difficulty modifiers that let you choose precisely how you want to adjust the challenge in your game. I hope they can expand on that somehow but even if they don’t, there’s plenty of options. As for normal difficulty being too hard, it was really tricky for me too. I just turned down the difficulty honestly.

With regards to length, I don’t have much to add there I’m afraid.

Kingmaker was planned to be 40 hour mainquests and + 40 hour sidequests = 80 hour total “if you make every possible quest and search every possible area in the game”.

Actually they made it longer and it was around 120+ hour long (or someone like me who really love to read all and try things out it take over 50 hour to play preluge + chapter 1 when you “start the game” [get your kingdom and so on] only at chapter 2.).

Now this game is supposed to be actually that 80 hour with sidequests. BUT way more different sides you can see when you play it multiple times (game will be quite different if you are let’s say a Lich with your minions versus if you are Aeon and able to travel through time and change things in the past).

Devs have alredy confrimed that it’s much shorter than KM! With a bigger focus on replayability!

Bad news on both counts, though I’m glad you are happy about them.

Well some people prefer quality over quantity. It’s simply impossible for a team of 30 to make a bugfree 120h + CRPG, Kingmaker has proven that.
Owlcat Games cannot afford to release anonther unfinished bug desaster like Kingmaker so makeing a smaller games is the right decision businesswise


It’s not internally consistent to trumpet the large amount of mythic-path-locked content (“replayability”) and then in the same sentence say they’re making individual run-throughs shorter to improve quality. The fact that individual run-throughs will be shorter has no relationship to the amount of work they are actually doing.

If they really wanted to produce only 60 hours of content instead of 120 so it will be much higher-quality, great, but don’t lock me out of content just because you judge that only a particular mythic path ought to be interested in seeing/doing those quests. Next we’ll be back to concealing dialogue options from characters who have the “wrong” alignment, like Kingmaker does in places such as Sycamore, because the devs judge no one with that alignment ought to want to select those options.


Tyranny was pretty great, I enjoyed playing that game over and over again. Depending on how they do it, I could see myself playing the story more than once if it’s short enough.

Umm… …but it is kind of how things are bound to happen in RPG games.
I mean most of us do not like railroading (forcing players to choose only ONE way, do only ONE option).
So in Kingmaker you get many different ways based your aligment, your choices, your own decicions, your sex and so on.
You might end up loving someone, hate another, kill third one and it is totally different game experience then fellow next door who play the same game using different race, aligment, sex, class, building you build in your city, who you nominate in different council places and so on.

You can not really mean that every class and race and sex should have every encounter same ways? To have access to every single item and spell in the game, every familiar, have relationship with every possible person you can have relationship with. To be able to (in this game) to travel back and forth in time, to get wings and horns, to create undead minions, turn into dragon, to get all things what you can get in every possible way you play the game? To have all possible mercenaries created ready for you and have them in your party same time when you have every other companion allso and at the same time play game solo and still manage to kill every companion you meet or atleast send them away.

To automatic made and allso botch every single check game have and read all these options allso?

Naturally if you get to choose there MUST be something different. Or you get to “choose” do you want to turn left or right, and no matter what you choose you just enter samekind of corridor and enter in the end at same room no matter which way you choose to go.

That is not how I would describe RPG (maybe diablo like action RPG but then I am old school and for me RPG is more close to P&P where you can make choices and things happen based for them. AND if you would choose differently you get totally different things happening.


I think what Jsaving is saying isn’t that they want to experience everything he possibly can in a game, they just want the game to allow them to be the only arbiter of what they experience. So they don’t want content locked behind alignment or myhtic path because that’s the devs making the choice of what their character would or wouldn’t do for them. I think that’s a reasonable argument but I don’t agree with it. A game by its very nature can’t encompass the full spectrum of choices a player might make. Every choice available is pre-determined by the creators.from the start.

The discussion of alignment-locked content is a contentious one with a lot of valid arguments on either side, but locking dialogue behind certain choices you make is not in itself a bad approach. And I think the mythic paths are a situation where you kind of have to do that to some degree. The paths are each wildly different, and from what we’ve heard from Owlcat, the journey along each path will be a significant part of the game spanning numerous quests and side-questsm so locking content behind each path is the only reasonable way to approach this idea. By their very nature, an Aeon and an Angel are going to have different quests available to them in the pursuit of their mythic paths because they’re quests they only go on because they’re pursuing those paths. If they start restricting access to quests that aren’t connected to your mythic path then that starts to get sketch, but we don’t have any real indication they’re planning to do that so I’m not worried. If you are, that’s fine. You’re under no obligation to take them at their word.

As to your point about the length of the game not being an automatic indicator they’re trying to make a more quality product, that is completely true. Given the amount of content they intend the mythic paths to have, it’s totally possible that in terms of what they have to work on it will be effectively the same as Kingmaker. I think they’ll make a higher quality product based on what they’ve told us and the diligence and good faith they’ve shown thus far, but if you don’t believe that to be the case, you’re entitled to that believe and it’s not an unreasonable concern.


I prefer shorter games myself, gives more time to play other games, or replays. Sadly there are too many crpgs that extended the length via trash mobs, unskippable nongameplay sections, and just time wasting activities like slow traveling and real time waiting! The NWN2 OC suffers from this, if it was just cut and edited, it could be so much better! And it would be around thirty to forty hours.

i’m the opposite of you. i want longer games. if your intent was to only focus on your build and combat i would actually suggest owlcat to kindly make another DLC that focuses mainly on combat and builds like BtSL.

i would also like that if there’s actually an option if we want to play solo or a party and that DLC will scale the encounters (not stats but the number of monsters and its strength according to difficulty and still doable).


The problem with longer games is for many of us we equate longer = filler content (think the assassin creed series). Honestly the industry as a whole has proven longer games are going to give much lower quality of content. If you have a 20 hours main story that’s good but has to carry 40 hours of barely passable side content the game suffers as a whole. It’s why I instinctively wince when I hear 100 hour completionist playthroughs.

I will say though I have some pretty major burn out from the PS3/xbox 360 era of games shoving collectibles/repeatable events everywhere.

Actually it is totally possible in this game (as it was in Kingmaker) to let your possible companion die, to not even go at place where you meet that person and so on. It is RPG so naturally if you have let person be killed there should not be (and there will not be) a change to do let’s say an companion quest for someone who is not your companion. Same go with let’s say a merchant. If you do not protect that merchant and his / her shop burn down / he dies or even you kill him there is no change that you will be able to buy stuff from him/her later or get any possible sidequests either.

But that had in Kingmaker allready. So it is totally possible in Kingmaker let’s say to kill an “ass” who come to your court and tries to agitate you. If you do you get some nice items. If you do not you can wait for another time and something else happen. Or you can side with goblins or trolls or mites and things change.

But yes, I do undestand what you and him are maybe trying to say. Game time will NOT be like 10 hour if you just rush the game and then you have like 8 totally different routes to play where you never even meet anyone or hear anything you encounter in first play through.

So you will get “full” experiment if you play game only once. But if you choose to play it multiple times you can make different choices and get different results. Get different quests or same quest might give different ending. You might even get more content (not suprise really) if you do not kill someone but instead let them live.

I’m actually neutral on this one. But I would definitely be unable to finish KM second time due to fact it’s 120 long campaign.