Mythic Tricks: need requirements!

I tried Trickster Mythic path and i think that Mythic should have requirements.
It’s not logical that u can take a trick in a skill you don’t have any points at all: how can you trik something like knowledge arcana if u don’t know anything about it?
Put some minimum requirements for each rank like at least 5 points in that skill for each rank.
Like:
Rank 1 trick requires 5 points
Rank 2 trick requires 10 points
Rank 3 trick requires 15 points

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Limiting it more than necessary isn’t really needed- also it’s unthematic!

“How do you keep finding all that stuff, you don’t even know the first thing about Lore: Nature!”

Trickster - “Dunno, just lucky I guess.” throws away another random artifact.

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Although I agree with your suggestion, wouldn’t that make some tricks almost unattainable for some classes? Try get knowledge arcana 15 with barbarian…

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A skill point limit is impracticable, even if it would be logical. All the classes with few skill points would practically be excluded from Trickster if there is a limit, or could only play a crippled version. Given that all paths are attainable for all classes (a fighter can take lich), they won’t build in barriers to that, which is also adding to the replay value.

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Well its kinda funny thinking about a trickster guy not knowing anything about this topic, but always gets lucky and does great things. And if someone points to him asking how he did that he just shrugs: “Its kinda Magic” xd

Even for classes which have many skill points, having high skill ranks as prerequisite would mean that you need to build your character around it already at level 1 (when you can’t know the Tricks yet)
And not always these skill combinations would make sense for the attributes of your character.

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Another issue with this is that Mythic and Character level are completely disconnected. If you got the Mythic level to take a rank 3 trick at Character level 14, then if would torpedo the whole system.

As @ShadowAsgard pointed out thematically, it’s called a trick. By definition, it’s not based on a high skill in something. The Trickster is teaching you how to; “kind of, sort of, just, you know, bump reality here, and hit it with your shoulder there, and LOOK! Now every magic item you find is +1 better”

Trickster is what you would get if Use Magic Device was sentient.

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I agree with the other replies here. The way to think of the trickster is like Marvel’s Domino character that was in Deadpool 2. Her superpower was “luck” and basically everything breaks her way.

Warning: May contain violence and some profanity, viewer discretion is advised. :stuck_out_tongue:

(6) Deadpool 2 Fight scenes Domino - YouTube

Which means you don’t really need to be skilled in many ways. You just need to know how to bend the rules which in turn makes you really good at everything you do. Which if I remember correctly, that Domino character does it through passive mutant psychic powers. Our Tricksters do it with mythic/magical power.

I think it is good to set at least some level of requirements.

Yes, most of what Trickster does is about luck, but you really need at least some minimal knowledge first. A good example is the arcana trick, where the items you identify get a bonus, but you still have to succeed on a normal identification roll, otherwise is your luck useless.

I think the reasonable requirements would be:

Rank 1 trick requires 1 points
Rank 2 trick requires 3 points
Rank 3 trick requires 5 points

I don’t have the beta so I can’t say how much that low skill point allocation would effect various high skill checks for MCs, with classes of low base skill points per level.

It seems reasonable enough though and represents the “dabbling” into certain skills to come up with these tricks or bright ideas/revelations about them. Also it would be very similar to the 3 points into mobility for fighting defensively mechanic.

All I wish for and totally off topic, is that Owlcat implements a higher mythic trick that allows spells/abilities to effect creatures immuned to mind effecting spells. At least outsiders with major bosses still immuned. One can dream… sigh Sorry had to get that off my chests. :stuck_out_tongue:

That woud be awesome,some mythic level superpower “Domino Effect”, where u roll a d20 on a predefined list und dont see and u get effects based on the result: for example " Switch AC between all enemies" or “All casters key ability is now Strenght” or befour a fight against heavy control casters u accidentaly bumb into an NPC casting Holy Aura on you xd

Immunities are necessary, otherwise you would kill every Boss in less than 10 seconds.

Some charas have 6 or more skillpoints per level, but other charas have only 1 skill point per level…

I completely agree, which is why I think if anything like that was implemented you would have to have at least a special buff for bosses that makes them exempt from the bypass. I can’t remember how Kingmaker dealt with Undead/Serpentine Bloodlines when it came to overriding Undead/Monsters/Animals immunities. I’m guessing in the notable boss battles the DCs were too high to begin with, or they had specific immunities (like vs. compulsion) that nullified the override.

I would settle for Coaxing and Threnodic Spell feats/rods. :slight_smile:

To ShadowAsgard: I like the idea of reversal of fortune effects. It would be cool as mythic trick or even a passive thing for the mythic class. Since the game is in beta something like this isn’t likely going to be implementedunless its already in the works. Maybe more will be added who knows since so many people want non-Angel/Lich paths buffed.

To chiaslaufis: Again that’s the main problem with mythic trick restrictions. A possible fix would be to have the mythic class give you extra skill points too if any restrictions were implemented. Trickster already feels like you need to dump points into intel with less skillful classes, which will likely break their builds (since some mythic tricks require actual skill investment to be useful).

Exactly my words!

More than two-thirds of all tricks require a massive investment in their skills.
If you don’t have at least 3 points per level, you won’t be able to use almost nothing but a few passive effects.

Trickster is really strange mythic class in terms of distribution stats…
Is obviously built for the users of dexterity, but main stat is charisma and you also need decent intelligence.

It is difficult to build on such complicated requirements :slightly_smiling_face:

Yeah the more I think about it, the more I think the path needs to offer more skill points per level, regardless of the discussion around trick requirements. Or at the very least, tie skill points per level to charisma instead of intelligence.

That way the attribute split is over two rather than three attributes. This can thematically make sense that the force of your personality/ego/mythic path is making you more skillful at things by bending the rules of reality/luck (iroll20s), rather than you truly learning the ins and outs through pure knowledge/intellect. Such a change would only partially hurt martial (sub)classes that use two/three main attributes including INT and not CHA. They may need to make a bigger investment in CHA than they would if INT still controlled skill points. Those few classes would still benefit from pumping CHA for mythic spells. Or you make tying skill points to CHA a mythic trick unto itself. :slight_smile:

Again, the Mythic Trickster as it is now seems to force a lot of classes to dump a one or two of other attributes just to justify the choice of the path. Casters classes can get away with this a lot more than martial ones.

Like a sorcerer dumping strength and having low martial attributes so they can get 18 INT for the path. Then you can make up for this by taking the abyssal bloodline (or as a second bloodline via mythic feat) for the +6 strength over time. I think there’s a mythic trick that allows something like althletics or mobility to be checked instead of martial DC saving throws too.

Still, that’s a lot of min/maxing just to play a mythic trickster caster while tapping the full power of mythic tricks.