List of potential character for the Cameo

(I’ve put the topic in the wrong subforum, I post here again, sorry for that ^^’)

I know there is already a post about this subject, but I created this one to discuss about which characters seems more logical (even if you don’t like the character) to see in Wrath than which your favorite characters you want to see again.

Before thinking about the characters, I think it’s important to consider the presence or no of an importing save feature.

  • If the importing save feature is not present, so the cast of possible characters will be small if Owlcat decide to not impose a canon. In this case, we can only consider characters where we only have a small influence on them. Because otherwise it would not be coherent to see them. For instance, it would not be coherent to see a character that can die in Kingmaker.
  • If Owlcat decide to impose a canon, the cast is larger, but I hope this will not be the case. Why? Because imposing a canon in a roleplay game series where choices matter is the worst thing ever … Ok, maybe be not the worst thing ever but it’s really frustrating that the devs decided that your story is not the good one and imposing their choice. So, if a dev read this, please don’t impose a canon.
  • If an importing save feature is present, it’s the best solution. Why? Because it gives a lot of freedom for the dev to create reactivity and it give a nice feeling for the player to know that the choices made on a previous game can impact the actual game.

Before proceeding further, this post will contain a LOT of spoil on Kingmaker so don’t read if you don’t want to be spoil.

No import save and no canon.

  • The Storyteller. If I had money to bet on which Kingmaker character will be present on Wrath, all my money will be bet on him. Because we have no influence on him, we can’t kill him and he will always leave your kingdom at the end, after the victory. So, whatever the choices you made during PFK, he will be the same.

This character also fit well for a cameo since he wants to explore and gather ancient knowledge. And there is a lot of ancient knowledge at the Worldwound.

  • Linzi, our poor little book. Even if we have a little influence on her, the end is the same, she became a book. So, for this part, whatever the choices you made, she will be almost the same.
    But the ending slide seems to indicate that she is in the capital library during a long time so seeing her in the Wourldwound will be difficult.
  • Amiri. Our barbarian cannot die and in each of her ending, she leaves for travelling. So, seeing her in Wrath could be coherent but if I’m not wrong, Owlcat already said that we only see one iconic character in Wrath so seeing Amari seem impossible.

And that’s all. I can’t find any other characters to add here. Obviously, there is other characters where we have little or no influence on them like the ancients of the first world (except the Lantern King) or the Pharasma inquisitor we meet in the Thousand Voices but they are really minors characters and I don’t think they could be satisfying cameo.

Importing save feature or/and imposing a canon

These two categories merge here because, having a canon imposed is like have the importing save feature but everyone use the same save.

  • Your character in Kingmaker and the kingdom. Because the Worldwound is a threat that concern everyone and since our kingdom is not too far of the Worldwound, it’s logical to think that the Stolen Land could be involved into this new crusade. This is particularly true of the LG kingdom where we made an alliance with the Mendev. It could be nice to have some troops coming from the Stolen Land reinforcing the crusade. With maybe some dialog line about the kingdom, which can change depending of the kingdom alignment.
  • Maegar Varn. One of his ending (where all his friend dies during the dlc) explicit said that he went to fight demons at the WorldWound. In all his other endings (expect the one where he dies, obviously) he also leaves the kingdom. So, it could be possible to see him again even with the General.
  • Ekundayo, one of his ending said he travels land to kill many monsters he can, so seeing him in the Worldwound could made sense.
  • Jaethal, two of his ending could be used to see her in Wrath. In the one where she stills undead, it said she left for the Geb, an undead nation. And one of the Kickstarter post said we could lead an undead army from Geb, so maybe Jaethal could be involved?
    In the ending she became a Pharasma inquisitor, it said that she leaves the kingdom to some work for his goddess. But since we know that Geb undeads will be involved in Wrath, we could see her tracking down these undeads?
  • Jubilost, since he continues to travel. But it’s said that he is focus on exploring the First World so seeing him in Wrath is not impossible but no likely.
  • Tristan, in one of his ending he becomes again an angel so seeing in fighting demon at the Worldwound could be possible.
  • Harrim, the expending Worldwound could be considered like the end of the world so seeing Harrim, whatever his ending could be coherent.
  • Tsanna, since she is a demon-lord servant, seeing her at the Worldwound could be logical.
  • Tartuk/Hargulka, if we don’t vassalize them and spare them, they leave for an unknow location so it’s a possibility to see them.
  • Ivar. If we spare the bard-werewolf, he continues to travel and since he seems to seek for redemption, we could see him at the Wourldwound fighting demons.
  • Dugath and other barbarians. Since the Numeria is the neighbor of Mendev and the Worldwound, we could see them as mercenary during the crusade.

And that’s all, I don’t find any another cameo who could make sense and being a little satisfying to see. Also, I didn’t say this before, but I’ve made one principal assumption is that Kingmaker begin before Wrath in the timeline of Galarion. I’m not sure it’s correct but I’ve seen some people said that Paizo consider that the chronology of the adventure path is the same in the real life and in Golarion. So, since Kingmaker had begun in 2010 and Wrath in 2013, Kingmaker begin first in Golarion timeline.

Thanks for reading this long post and don’t hesitate to add others characters which seem pertinent for you or discuss the one I’ve presented !

1 Like

Hope we got linzi (as a book) anyway in the game after all magical talking “items” is a thing . Would be nice to keep her in that way.

2 Likes

What about Janush from Octavias quest? Not an obvious choice for a cemeo, but hes available.

What’s the point of implementing a stretch goal that only some players will get to see, though? The ideal parameters here are:

  1. It has to be a character everyone would have encountered during the course of the game.
  2. It has to be a character who either doesn’t get zapped by Nyrissa at the House, or survives the House in, say, 75-80 percent of all playthroughs.
  3. It has to be a character whose ultimate fate isn’t revealed in an epilogue slide (e.g. Jhod, Jamandi, Kesten, Valerie)

It could be a possibility indeed since his fate is not affected by our choices but it’s a minor antagonist which is more related to Octavia and Regongar so seeing him in Wrath without them would be strange.

Not just some players will get to see but every players. If the import save function is present and a player doesn’t use it, the player can choose a premade set of choice like it’s done in Mass Effect, Dragon Age or Pillars of Eternity series.
The point it’s to have a personnal experience rather than having the same cameo for everyone. This give a better feeling by making our own adventure when playing Kingmaker and Wrath.

For your parameters :

  1. It depend the scale of the cameo. If it’s a small one, it’s indeed better to focus on important characters but if the cameo is larger having some unimportant characters could be nice.
  2. The problem is 20-25% of peoples will have a cameo which will not be coherent with their game. This percentage is even greater since for a same character, this character can have different destiny.
  3. In any case, having these characters will be impossible since it would be coherent with the story and I think Owlcat would like to keep a coherent story.
1 Like

I really like this idea, especially if she serves the same role she served in Kingmaker and narrates the story. It’d be a great way to maintain the same storytelling style (where the PC’s journey is being chronicled in real time) without having to introduce a new character that would effectively just be a rehash of Linzi. I also really love sentient items in games so having the Linzi book and the sentient stretch-goal weapon at the same time would be sick.

I´d love to import a kingmaker save in WotR and have the cameo (if not some bonus too) based on whatever happened on my kingmaker playthroughs.

I hope it will be the Storyteller, a very mysterious and intriguing character. Do not forget that he left us at the end of Kingmaker, which means that he may appear during the crusade.

Is it OK though for a stretch goal to be fulfilled by the Storyteller who as you say Owlcat was almost certainly planning to include anyway? I thought the idea behind stretch goals was to provide new money for otherwise-it-won’t-happen content additions.

FYI, the cameo is a Social Goal, not a Stretch Goal.

I could see the Storyteller being added from the beginning, as his whole role in the story as a ‘will buy artifacts, tell stories about said artifacts, and will reforge shards into useful items’ could be used again in Wrath.

If there’s a ‘save import’ option (or maybe do something like DAI tapestry but much more streamlined) then I’d like to see the chosen LI from the previous game. Or just default it to Amiri if player did not romance anyone.

If ‘save import’ isn’t a thing, then I’ll vote in Storyteller for reasons stated already. And it’s much simpler to pull off anyway ;p

Well who is there might be a problem, some companions have plot armor and even if Jaethal dies if you don’t choose her every time in her quests, she might not be dead-dead.

I doubt it’d be any companions, with the possible exception of book-form Linzi. The Storyteller seems the most likely especially because he’s potentially immortal and a walking encyclopedia. He also has a mysterious backstory that’s hinted at in Kingmaker and disappears after the final battle to go do his own thing. He’s perfectly suited to being the character that exists in every Pathfinder video game.

A less likely but still awesome option would be to have a save import feature that allows your PC from Kingmaker show up for a brief cameo. They could even be accompanied the romantic partner(s) you picked, assuming they survived. I imagine it’d be a really barebones cameo like how the General you played in Varnhold’s Lot would sit in your tavern after you saved them but you couldn’t have a conversation with them and they’d just repeat the same three lines over and over. Nothing special but a nice touch, especially since they and Maegar Varn would fight with you in the final battle if you rescued Varnhold.

Personally, I really dislike it when Cameos happen according to an “official canon” that differs from your playthrough in the previous games in the Franchise; so either a Save Import option would be good, or they should only take a character whose fate is not really influenced by the different possible outcomes in PK.
So, obviously, the Storyteller is a prime candidate. And so might be possible minor characters that survive no matter what, like Waine the merchant in chapter 2 (at least he survived in all my saves, but I did not try all options), your innkeeper in your capital (if they found any reason why she might be travelling about the Worldwound, the merchants in your capital, and such.

2 Likes

I agree, that’s why Linzi is the only companion that I would want because she has the same ending no matter what, I believe. As for minor characters, I’d love to see anyone from the capital make a cameo, like Anoriel Eight Eyes, Arsinoe, or Waine. Elina, the innkeeper, wouldn’t fit that criteria though because your actions in Ekundayo’s questline can heavily impact what happens to her at the end of the game.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that ! Thanks.

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