Lich Build help

I’m a mid-level min-maxer, for 3.5 with lots of holes in my game. Unfamiliarity Pathfinder with pathfinder rules sets me back as well. That said, I want to play around with the Lich mythic.

My first main choice is base class. I’m deciding between:
a) Viv/Wizard/Arcane Trickster
b) Scaled Fist/Eldritch Scion

Option (a) definitely fits that classic lich feel as the ultimate undead caster. Plus, I’m planning on building Nenio as an AT as well, so there is a bit of duplication. I suppose I could replace her in the party completely.

Option (b) is a fun class, and I used it on my main PK run. Not sure I built it right, but it got me through the game on normal difficulty comfortably.

Any thoughts if either of those are considerably better/worse than the other?

Scion isn’t a full caster. So you’ll miss out on the level 7-9 spells. Also there’s merging spellbooks vs taking them individually to consider. and, the fact that demons have decent spell resistance. So, going full caster with the mythic abilities/feats is certainly helpful in ensuring that those spells actually land. That’s also why I lean towards merging spellbooks with any full caster. As, it boosts your caster level up to a potential 30 at character level 20/mythic 10.

There’s also the enduring spells situation at caster level 25 that has been brought up a few times in the alpha forums. If you have both of the enduring spells feats and a caster level of 25, your cast extended per round spells(like displacement) will last 24 hours instead. So, that’s something to consider when multiclassing. The only real exception there is the Hellknight Signifier prestige class, as it merges spellbooks at level one(bugged in alpha). In most other cases, you lost a caster level and the merge happens on level 2.

If you take a look at my posted Lich build, I lost 3 caster levels by multiclassing. Which means, I wont get the per round buffs extended until caster level 28. Now, this was all based on the alpha, and they have talked about changing how mythic spellbooks are combined with your existing spellbook, and how the casting stat is affected. I’m not sure if that will affect the caster levels though.

In alpha, at least. I found that the builds that you could use in kingmaker worked very well in WotR. The extra classes add a lot more customization to your builds. However, with the exception of mounted combat; the new classes play very similarly to a multiclassed build as it is. Typically offering a mix of two other classes abilities without the drawbacks to multiclassing. For instance, with Magus, you could now take the Armored Battlemage sub-class. And ignore the scaled fist level. Then you’d still get your capstone ability. It trades the weapon enchantments and puts them towards armor and protection instead. Plus, there’s plenty of ways to tweak your weapons with spells in WotR anyways.

Anyways, there’s lots of things to consider.

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Hey, thanks for the thoughtful reply, there is definitely more to consider than I was originally thinking. In the AT build, I’m losing one caster level, due to the Vivisectionist, in a trade for sneak attack damage. That seemed like a no brainer trade, prior to your info, but that closes the gap.

Does anyone know how much game content there is post level 20?

I think that I hit 15 by the end of the 3rd act (iirc). And the mythics were just taking off at that point (lvl 4). So, it’s tough to say. There may be quite a bit of content at max character level, and then the mythic’s kind of take over. Due to some bugs, I couldn’t check past lvl 8 mythic with save editing. So, I couldn’t see things like the Ravener(sp?) Dragon for Lich. I do have a complete spell list on the alpha forums if you have access though.

Keep in mind that if you don’t merge spellbooks, you get access to pretty much all of the necromancy spells with the Lich book. If you merge, you only get access to the Lich specific spells. So, you have to build your spell selection around that as well. Again, they might be tweaking this with beta and final release.

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I made one build where I had a specialist wizard, with get this, an opposed school of necromancy. Imagine the level of facepalm there.

I wish there was a way to flip god mode on, so I could fast play through all the content again. Oh well, punishment for being short sighted :smiley:

I made a armored battlemage thinking that swarm was in and shoehorned myself into Lich again with my alignment… So, I feel your pain.

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You should know that liches become undead at some point and undead use cha instead of con, so a cha based caster would be the best option.

Sorcerer is the most natural choice and you can merge spell books. Role playing wise being a dhampir or using the undead bloodline would fit, but it may be hard to heal yourself early in the game.
Bard may be interesting too. Liches can create armies of minions and bards are great buffers.

I case you didn’t see it, here’s a link to the build I made that does just that. Utilizes charisma for everything and basically ignores constitution. It can be a bit rough if you get hit early on. But, there’s always buffs and reach weapons for that.

There’s no reason that you couldn’t do this as more of a pure caster though. But, personally I’d stick with sorcerer. A few people want to make Lich clerics for some reason, but there’s no benefit with the stats.

Question for the Lich aficionados out there: After your character fully transforms into a lich, will the party consist of all undead, or will the party status quo remain?

I understand that the Lich gets an Undead Champion, but what of the rest of the NPC’s? Do you have the option of an all dancing, all singing, all undead ensemble?

You get 3 additional companions in alpha. A warpriest, ranged slayer and cavalier. You get a buff that will make living characters act like undead for heals and resists etc. There was no option to convert the default companions permanently in alpha.

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Nice thanks for the info @Drask! I normally never play evil, but this is kind of fun.