Less restrictive Character Creator

I was very saddened and a little suprised that kingmaker, a game of this day and age, which prides itself in having so so many possibilities to create the character of your liking did not come with any other options than a very generic stereotypical male and female. Some people might not care, but to me this limits rp value alot.

I realize it would be alot of work to create more options, that’s why i want to suggest to atleast allow free choice of avaliable options, gender, body, hair and colors, not just voice. I see no reason to force a character stereotype on my main character.

To clarify, i’m basicly only asking to remove the restriction of available body and hair types which are currently locked on gender choice, so that we can freely mix and match, make more feminine males, masculine females, or if we so please a character that identifies with a different gender than it’s biological. Also a broader shared color palette for hair styles would be very much appriciated. It is one thing to keep the gameworld and characters classic and another to force it on my main character and limit my fantasy. RPG to me is all about fantasy and the more freedom and choices to envision a character the better. I do not ask to make more models, npc’s to react differently or to incorperate this in any way into the gameworld, i think that would be a unreasonable amount of work and not needed. Just asking for a bit more personal freedom in creating my main character.

I know mod’s might simply provide just that, but then mods need to be updated, can screw your save and usualy don’t fix all the clipping issues. I would guess a little bit of adjustment on hair styles would be needed to make it look right on everyone.

Thank you for listening.

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The hell are you talking about? There are only 2 genders. If this was starfinder you may have other options for the alieans, but this is pathfinder.

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I completely agree: At this year and world we must have the option to, at least, be an apache helicopter. Why should I conform to this world? If i want to play pathfinder, i truly need that world to merge with mine. Who the hell wants some fantasy that I, the center of cosmos, must dive in?

Hope you conform to this, since we all want a safe space in our games

Peace

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How exactly more options, that noone forces you to use, is a reason to make fun of a reasonable suggestion is beyond my comprehension.

Biologicaly, humans only have two genders. If you want this kind of stuff, cyberpunk 2077 may pick your interest.

By the way, my post was meant as a suggestion to the developers, not an invitation for people to force their ideas on others and to let mockery loose.

Please stay constructive and reasonable all i’m asking is for more options, if you don’t want them, don’t use them.

Can we not please keep real world politics out of our games?

Pathfinder Kingmaker does not take place in the real world, but in a phantasy world.
In that fiction, there are only the biological genders.

That is perfectly valid, not every story has to cater to every single sensibility; it’s the author’s choice how to tell their story, and how to create their world: artistic license!

If this game took place in 2020’s real world, then and only then a case could be made that it should reflect current-day issues; but games taking place in entirely different worlds than our own do not have to, and, frankly, should never be confined or even influenced by real world politics, religion or any other divisive crap.

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It has to accommodate certain flags that differentiate the genders for his/her. Which doesn’t always work by the way. Don’t you find it a little selfish to ask for so much work to accommodate the very specific RP desires of the .001%? I mean, there are plenty of blind, deaf or amputee people out there. Likely much more so than androgenous trans people. Yet, I don’t see the same complaints on the forums.

Catering the the majority is and likely always will be the path that devs take. There’s simply too much work needed to appease everyone. It’s not easy to figure out the desires and playstyle of those that identify as a piece of celery for instance.

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Likewise:
If you don’t like a game and its world, then don’t play it.

You see how these knockout arguments do nothing but, well, knock out the discussion?

I like this gameworld quite alot, that’s why i even bothered making a post. I don’t see how it has to be limited to genderstereotypes though, i don’t see how it botheres this gameworld to have more variety, maybe it botheres you.

But you see i’m not even asking to change the world, all i’m asking is to remove certain limitations in the character editor.

Well it was intended that way, i don’t even see why there should be a discussion, a consumer is posting a suggestion to the devevelopers, they can make their own choice if they like it or not, wouldn’t you think so?

You completly missed the point. I’m not asking to incorperate any politics into this game. I don’t ask to change the world, characters, religions or anything else, i only ask for personal freedom of how i envision my character, the gameworld does not have to respond to it in any newage political manner.

That might be true, i am still allowed to suggest it and leave it up to the devs.

I understand why someone might ask for more options, but adding them is also adding fuel for the trolls and those who see agenda everywhere.

These kinds of additions are a nightmare to moderate…

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OOF lots of people with thin skin here. I see no option why this hurts anyone games like Saint Row did it ages ago and even the Goldbox games
grafik

But seems like some people here hated those classics :rofl:

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It would seem so ^^’.

Thanks for the example, it shows very well what i’m talking about. It should really not be such a big deal, but yeah tensions are high i guess.

Aside from man and woman, what else is there?

Do you want them to add man dressed like woman, and woman dressed like man?

If you’re a dude that likes to dress like a girl, can’t you just chose the female character, or does that character model need an adam’s apple and stubble to be more realistic?

Holy crap, I thought it was crazy when everyone had to have their own bathroom.

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I’m typically against additional supported features, but this sounds fairly easy to implement since all of the clothing and equipment is designed to refit to the base body model.

If not officially supported, then things like allowing all hair on everyone, or all voices for everyone should be something that the modding community could handle.

The odds of getting gender neutral pronouns on dialogue on a game this much text is basically zero. Again, unless modders could do a find/replace and see what that does.

You’re getting a lot of snarky comments here so I’ll try to give you something more constructive, though it’s going to be a pretty long comment as a result. The problem people have with adding more “gender options” to the game is that:

  • Many of us who have been active in gaming communities (card, tabletop, or video) for a long time have witnessed at least one of those communities get commandeered or destroyed by Trojan horses. Most of the time, this Trojan horse came in the form of “quality-of-life features” and “streamlining” meant to make the game more accessible to new players. Eventually the new players became the dominant force in the community and the developers began pandering to them rather than the original players, thus completely commandeering the original community and alienating the people who helped create it. More recently, the Trojan horse has come in the form of concessions to progressives that often start off mostly reasonable but then start to become increasingly more ridiculous until the culture of the community has completely changed. Many of us have become very defensive of our communities as a result of having witnessed this happen time and time again. People aren’t really reacting to what you view as the small addition of “gender options”, they’re reacting to what they’re afraid that small addition could lead to in the years to come. You might not agree, but I’m sure you can at least understand where they’re coming from.

  • Those of us who don’t hang out in circles where the rejection of the gender binary is the norm have no idea what adding more “gender options” or removing “gender restrictions” even mean. You also haven’t done a good job of describing what they mean. If you’re talking about something as simple as allowing characters to have access to all of the character customization options regardless of their gender in a way that doesn’t impact the game, which I believe you are, then that’s a bit immersion-breaking and silly but not a big deal. If you’re talking about actually being able to be a male who identifies as a female, and vice versa, and having that actually impact the game, that would be an interesting addition if they put effort into it and didn’t make it preachy. If you’re talking about anything more than that, then that’s a problem for reasons I’ll explain in the next point.

  • The vast majority of us believe there are two genders. The gender binary is one of the most important parts of the foundation upon which our society is built. Adding more “gender options” in a way that goes against the gender binary isn’t some minor addition that can be done willy nilly with no effect on the world because it directly contradicts one of the core tenets of our society. For comparison, the U.S. has had an ongoing debate for years about whether or not creationism should be taught in school alongside evolution. Proponents believe that allowing it to be taught doesn’t take anything away from education and merely teaches the students that there are different views on how life came to be. Opponents believe that creationism is fundamentally opposed to evolution and that it detracts from their education by making them doubt the accuracy of the core tenet of life sciences. It might not be the best comparison but I hope it makes you understand the point I’m trying to make.

You can argue whether or not the gender binary SHOULD be a core tenet of our society, and I’m sure it’d be an interesting discussion, but you can’t argue whether or not it IS a core tenet. Not that it really matters in this case because I’m pretty sure, unless I misunderstood your comments, that all you want is to remove gender restrictions from the character customization menu. Like I said before, I think it’s immersion-breaking and silly but not a big deal. If you’re playing on PC, you might even be able to do something similar to that with the Hair Unlocker and Visual Adjustments mods. A few commenters here are acting like you’re petitioning Owlcat to add UwU anime catgirls with cute femme-cocks UwU but, to be fair, you haven’t exactly done a good job of explaining otherwise.

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To be completely fair: there are indeed other CRPG’s that do possess a broader gender column. Neverwinter Nights 1 for instance does have Male, Female, Both, Neither and None if memory serves right. Granted… the non-binary options are “hidden” inside the ingame character creation since they were originally intended for non-player characters/monsters only. But if you are using third-party character builders, such as the PRC Character Creator, said options are fully unlocked to the player.

I personally wouldn’t mind having a wider variant here. Especially when it comes to WotR’s Mythic Paths. Things like Aeons and Swarms-That-Walks all would work very well without any gender at all. In any case it wouldn’t hurt anyone for Owlcat to have more options in the game code. That way modders could still make use of them. While those who do not want to mod them in don’t have said options visible. Or Owlcat could just introduce an additional checkbox inside the Settings for making non-binary options appear inside the game character creation process. Just spitballin’ out ideas here.

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:grin: There we go, someone already made the mods for KM