Lann Mounted Snap Shot Build

Here’s an idea that I’ve been playing with . It should give you a significant amount of attacks vs anyone within 10 ft of you. The idea being that you use your mounts overrun ability to plow into groups of enemies, knocking them prone and taking a ton of AoO shots at them in the process. According to what I’ve read about the PnP version, this should work. But, due to alpha being a little odd when it comes to mounted combat and snap shot not working at all, it’s hard to test.

There’s nothing saying that you can’t do this for your MC either. Acolyte might be a good heritage to pick, then you could use wisdom for persuade. Lann’s stats just tend to work out really well for it.

Lann
Lawful Neutral Mongrelman
Stats:
Str 17>18
Dex 17>20
Con 14
Int 11
Wis 17>18
Cha 9

Final build: Zen Archer 3 / Demonslayer 17
Main Skills: Athletics (Max), Mobility (Max), Perception (Max)
Suggested Secondary Skills: Stealth
Background: Hunter
Suggested Favored Enemy: Monstrous Humanoid/Undead/Magical Beats/Aberations
Suggested Favored Terrain: Urban/Abyss/Underground

Lvl 1: Monk - Rapid Shot//Point Blank Shot
Lvl 2: Monk - Combat Reflexes
Lvl 3: Monk - Point Blank Master (Longbow)//Mounted Combat
Lvl 4: Ranger
Lvl 5: Ranger - Deadly Aim//Precise Shot
Lvl 6: Ranger
Lvl 7: Ranger - Boon Companion//Animal Companion - Mastadon
Lvl 8: Ranger
Lvl 9: Ranger - Snap Shot//Many Shot
Lvl 10: Ranger
Lvl 11: Ranger - Improved Snap Shot
Lvl 12: Ranger
Lvl 13: Ranger - Greater Snap Shot//Improved Critical Longbow (Optional, needed for Mythic Imp. Crit)
Lvl 14: Ranger
Lvl 15: Ranger - Hammer the Gap
Lvl 16: Ranger
Lvl 17: Ranger - Dazzling Display//Improved Precise Shot
Lvl 18: Ranger
Lvl 19: Ranger - Shatter Defenses
Lvl 20: Ranger

Mythic Feats/Abilities (A lot of this is TBD. You may want to change the order based on your preferences). I’ve left out Mythic Rapid shot because we’re not sure if it will stack with flurry of blows or not, post alpha. Also, a lot of this may depend on animal companion evolution and mythic feats if any are added.
Lvl 1: Cleaving Shot
Lvl 2: Deadly Aim (Mythic)
Lvl 3: Ever Ready
Lvl 4: Improved Critical (Mythic)
Lvl 5: Distracting Shots
Lvl 6: Flawless Attacks
Lvl 7: Ranging Shots
Lvl 8: Point Blank Shot (Mythic)
Lvl 9: Expose Vulnerability
Lvl 10: Weapon Focus (Mythic)

Depending on how/if they iron out rapid shot and flurry of blows; you should have 5 or 6 attacks at level 20. Plus you’ll have whatever your dex bonus is(+2 with ever-ready) of additional AoO’s to enemies within 10ft. Here’s what he’ll look like with no gear or buffs:

Let me know if you have any feedback

2 Likes

Lann starts with the same dex and wis.
Would it be better to go monk1 ranger19 and switch the stat improvements for dex and wis?
You get a more powerfull animal companion, more AoO, more spells and another bonus to favoured enemy.

If overrun+AoO works it looks like an interesting idea.
I read the PnP rules and it looks like targets of overrun can also get AoO against you.
You can do it only with creatures of at least one size smaller than you, so beware of things as tall as a mastodon with legendary proportions buff.
Your huge size may be a problem when walking around. Even characters of normal size can block each others path when walking around, or do you want to overrun your companions too?

https://aonprd.com/Rules.aspx?Name=Overrun&Category=Combat%20Maneuvers

As far as it is currently implemented in Kingmaker and WotR, there is no AoO against the mastadon. It seems to be implemented as the Improved Overrun feat from tabletop. It does, however, knock everything in the path prone on failed CMD check. As you can see above, the Mastadon’s CMB is pretty good at base, and a lot better when buffed. Also, the overrun attempt is restricted to enemies that are no more than one size larger than you. With animal growth, the mastadon should be catagorized as Huge. And, when you’re fighting groups, it’s unlikely that they will be groups of Gargantuan size or greater in most cases. Also, you can and probably will run over your companions if they are in the path. So you have to make sure that you’re at the front of the formation. Or, just watch your positioning. I was using it to initiate combat though.

As for the more ranger bit. I was finding the class a bit feat starved at first. And, you get a decent boost with a couple more monk levels. But, That would definitely be an option. I was a bit torn on the attribute spread as well. And, you may be right about the dex over wis. I was trying to make use of the wis to attack that zen uses @ 3. But, I think I’ll edit that. I had more than enough spells with the current layout. I’ll play with it a bit more and update ii to compare though.

I appreciate the feedback.

I have this source:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/rules-for-monsters/universal-monster-rules#TOC-Trample-Ex-
I found it by going ranger -> animal companion -> elephant/mastodon -> trample

I have never used a mastodon pet, so I do not know how it is implemented in the computer game.

I did some more testing and the results were a bit mixed. When going zen 1/ ranger 19, the feats were more difficult to align with the build concept and I wasn’t able to work in shatter(albeit late) without sacrificing something else. Also, my animal companion got stuck at lvl 16, so there wasn’t much gain there. You only gain one level 4 spell with the additional ranger levels, which didn’t make much of a difference and can be modified by a higher wisdom.

On the plus side, I did like getting improved quarry and fiendish quarry. But, I had to push mounted combat back, to keep up with the archery feats. Mounted combat is quite nice in theory, as a mobility check to your character can negate hits directed at your mount. And, the build has high mobility as it is. However, I didn’t notice it working in alpha. And, it seemed like enemies were more prone to attack the mammoth than the rider, it was not always the case.

So, if I were to try it as is, I’d probably stick with the 3 levels of monk. For feat synergy as it is. But, it’s a lot of theory craft at the moment, due to the incomplete nature of the game.

The trample feat is in game as it is. However, with the mastadon it may not be a necessary pick IF you can overrun while mounted. The rules don’t seem to have an issue with it, but we’ll see if it gets implemented that way. If not, then it might be better to take trample on another pet that trips for example. Or, that has pounce.

Oops, what I have posted was the ability of the mastodon.
I did not look at the trample feat that talks about doing it while mounted.
Actually, I did not know there was a trample feat until now.

The game is great, but the rules are so difficult.
I have to look for the rules online and then hope that they are done in the computer game in the same way.

I miss the good old times (BG1+2, arcanum, Realms of Arcadia) when game came together with a huge manual.

I hear you. I never played the PnP stuff, so I have to look it up all of the time since it’s hard to see in game. Here’s a couple of pictures of how the feats are described in game:

Trample doesn’t work in alpha though. I just tried it.

Here’s a couple of images of the other WotR specific feats being used in this build for anyone that’s curious:

Greater Snap shot Improved Snap shot Mounted Combat Snap shot

Fun fact:
When the romans fought carthage, the soldiers from carthage wanted to use elephants to overrun the romans. The romans made lots of noise to distract the animals and the elephants went crazy and trampeled over their own soldiers.

So beware of enemy bards and those using fire, smoke and explosives :wink:
I doubt carthage had more success if they tried to use leopards or tigers ( tiger is the animal most similar to smilodon, these are the two most frequent pets in this game).

This is A+ just for the lols. I’m in the middle of the game so far, and I only thought to throw rogue levels on Lann for the sneak attack joy.

I think that if I were to go for the sneak attack route that I’d go slayer instead. Maintain full BAB. Was there a reason that you went rogue instead?

Yeah I was going for earlier access to SA, I might be wrong, but I thought the slayer didn’t start getting it until level 3.

No, that’s right. And, with slayer only getting additional sneak attacks every 3 levels, you get 4d6 more total with the rogue. I suppose there’s always debilitating injury to make up for the loss of BAB too. That’s assuming of course that you can hit the target in the first place to apply it, and that it qualifies for a sneak attack.

I think that you could do something really cool by multiclassing Camellia. But, I haven’t figured out the right direction to go. The above concept seemed kind of cool and is something that I haven’t seen posted as far as builds go. Being that we have all of these new abilities in WotR. I’m really hoping that beta comes out anytime now so I can test it out.

Fun fact:
When the romans fought carthage, the soldiers from carthage wanted to use elephants to overrun the romans. The romans made lots of noise to distract the animals and the elephants went crazy and trampeled over their own soldiers.

Yeah, I was thinking of Alexander the Great hitting India while playing with the build. That, and Lord of the Rings. As much as it can be a pain to have larger creatures around. I wouldn’t mind being able to see the effects of Animal Growth, so you could visualize the mammoth at the next size category (Huge). Also really hoping to see how the companions equipping gear and the evolutions work out.

Yeah that’s interesting. I’ve gotten her to deal quite a bit of damage with the Rapier through crits and Finesse, but I feel like a lot of damage potential is being wasted. For tougher fights I’ve been doing the Righteous Might/Divine Power combo which has increased her survivability.

I’d think of adding sneak attack with all that dex, but I’m short on tanks - although honestly, I think the meta in this game makes tanks nearly useless. I can’t ever seem to raise AC enough to prevent frontline from melting in a few rounds.

She’d be interesting with dual wield, although the AC would certainly take a hit.

I found her to be fairly decent at tanking. Easily beating Seelah for AC most of the time. I grab the iceplant hex and the ring that boosts it by 2. Then, I user her wards. She’s a good buff bot and tank for the most part if you go pure shaman. I’ve tried to work with a duelist build for her, but it’s touch. She’s too short on feats and it tends to leave a bit of a hole in my party for a buffer. Not to mention that the girls tend to be really short on intelligence. Nenio being the exception. So, you can’t easily get her on a combat expertise path.

Maybe when some of the other archetypes come out, something will pop out for her. I might try playing with this concept(yet again) later today though.

I had the same idea. Once they get Mounted properly integrated in will be great and Lann even has a chance to get nice high Mobility for the Mounted Feats.

I like Dog/Wolf for Free Trip.

I’d take ZA3 since those are all such great levels and Boon gives you three free levels. Don’t need Shatter since AoOs are full BAB and you’re a full BAB class and you don’t need Dazzling. I like using Drover for the Auras, especially the +4CM on to help your pet land the Trip. Urban Hunter is another good option.

The Weapon Enhancement abilities are the strength of the class. If she’s easily outclassing Seelah you’re missing something on Seelah as well. I use Hampering Hex with Camellia early then move her into Melee once she picks up Mythic Finesse and she gets the second level of her Weapon Enhancement abilities.

Why dog/wolf?
The whole point of this build is to use a mastodon to trample over as many enemies as posible, knocking all of them prone and provoking AoO to get as many attacks as possible while riding the beast. Only mastodon has the trample ability (at least of the animals in the computer game).
When mounted combat is fully implemented we can see if this works.

I think about a single class human ranger named Hannibal riding on a mastodon named Lecter.
I do not think players can get stats as good as Lann, but ranger is a good class and the idea of trampling over a demon army while riding a mastodon sounds fun.