Kingmaker 2 or Pathfinder 2

So, as I’ve hit so many bugs that really I can’t keep playing my current game until a few more patches come down the pipe, yet still can’t stop thinking about the game.

Sequel Discussion Thread.

Would you rather have another Kingmaker game, RPG with Kingdom Management, or another Pathfinder game, Straight RPG, as the Sequel to Pathfinder: Kingmaker? as there’s two ways the franchise could go with a name like that.

Either they would be, built on a fixed and the kinks and bugs ironed out version, rather than more of the current state game. Utopian future ideas here.

Pathfinder: Another Subtitle, is probably easier as there’s plenty of Pathfinder campaigns out there to computerise. But it’d be a shallower game without that extra layer.

For Kingmaker 2 it’d be all original story, but could improve and expand on the Kingdom Management side of the game as well as the RPG side.

Maybe it could be Starfinder: Kingmaker and you’d be establishing a colony on some world covered in gap era ruins or something?
Or Pathfinder: Kingmaker 2 and it’s the same deal as this game but in a different region? Not sure where though, there aren’t alot of blankish spaces on the map and where there are theyre the same sort of climate as the stolen lands so it would feel a bit too much repeating the same thing.

Pathfinder without kingmaker.

Many (though certainly not all) of the Adventure Paths after Kingmaker possess some sort of campaign-specific subsystem. Jade Regent has a traveling caravan you manage, Hell’s Rebels has you managing an underground resistance movement, and Skull & Shackles incorporates various elements of ship management/naval combat. So I think it’s very feasible to make a following game that still has the “extra layer” you mention.

However, I believe a lot of the more “traditional” Adventure Paths are strong enough to stand without the extra bells and whistles: I’d back Rise of the Runelords in a heartbeat. Additionally, many of the more traditional APs cover a lot of ground within a specific region, and I don’t think it would be too difficult to add a basic “stronghold” element to those campaigns, not unlike what you get in Baldur’s Gate 2 or Pillars of Eternity.

Which is a long, rambling road to rationalizing my choice of: New APs each game, please! Runelords would be great, and I’d also dig either of the more horror-oriented Paths. I’d sell my first born child for an eventual adaptation of Iron Gods. Double emphasis on eventual, though: much like I wouldn’t run that for someone’s very first play experience, something that thematically boundary-pushing would be best saved for the fourth or fifth game in a series (knock on wood).

Jade Regents and Hells Rebels sound good.
I’d probably want them to avoid ship management because PoE just did that.

Rise of the Runelords (the only one ive actually played), feels alittle too similar to Kingmaker? the climate is mostly the same and ruins of giants and ruins of cyclops dont feel different enough to me? But probably its just the I’ve played it in PnP so know how it goes and want something new feelings.

DLCs first. There will at least be 3 of them, not including the free portraits DLC everyone will be getting.

And honestly a sequal doesn’t make sense unless they decide to go mythic (epic levels over 20), as this game already goes to 20 levels. You conquered the Stolen Lands. There is enough stuff for some DLCs, side missions, new NPCs, Companions, Classes, Archetypes, Races, racial variants, and improvements to the Kingdom. Maybe the ability to create a second city in every region. Or start conquerering the River Kingdoms.

Starfinder is a no go for me, I was initially interested, but I didn’t like the rules and they ruined the Lashtuna, their extreme sex dimorphism was what made them interesting, different. Plus the setting undermined the pulpy feel to them that they originally had.

Still after this maybe they could make onto the Forgotten Realms and 5e.

As for what I want from the DLCs that I think is realistic is the Witch class (with Seducer Archetype) and Oracle. Maybe Medium or other Occult classes.

Races Dampyr, Tiefling, Elemental (think Genasi) races make sense. Vishkanyas would be easy to do as well and unique, you could use the human model. In fact all of them could use the human model with a twist like different skin colors and little twists like halos instead of Darkvision were for Aasimar.

Maybe catfolk, but they will go more for the catgirl look then a cat headed creature I think, as they can use an altered human body.

Maybe goblins, but that might step on what makes Nok Nok special.

Maybe an extra rank or two for kingdom so you can turn a city into a metropolis.

That’s a good point regarding Runelords: it’s popularity is immense and well-deserved, but I hadn’t considered the aesthetic similarities between it and Kingmaker.

Hell’s Rebels could potentially be incredible, lots of urban environments opens up some fun thematics to set it apart and it can be fun to have an enemy as clear as a devil-worshiping totalitarian government. Not to mention increased likelihood some of my favorite archetypes would get included: the Urban Barbarian and Urban Ranger.

As a very minor note regarding future games: I’d love if they made it tradition to include one of the Pathfinder iconics as a party member in each game.

Jade Regent’s caravan system is an abomination. It takes away everything that makes a party unique. Granted, in a single player cRPG, it is not as bad as it is in person because in person it gives all the power to a single person that wants to run it and makes the rolls. But it is still utterly awful.

For example, my character in a Jade Regent campaign was a tiefling sorcerer. We were about 5th level by the time we actually got to the caravan portion of the AP. I had spells like fireball and acid arrow. Using caravan rules, we were attacked by a group of trolls. Instead of actually going into combat with them, which would have been fine because I could hard counter trolls pretty well, it was one player making rolls to see how much damage we did to them and took from them. All I did was mark off a spell slot every round to simulate the caravan system of hitting them with fire/acid damage to prevent regen. Didn’t matter what spell slot or even if I had a fire/acid spell at that level, just highest level slot down. No tactics, no flanking, no maneuvering. D&D equivalent of two people standing still and taking turns punching each other once. It was boring and took everything that made my character unique away.

There are a few more APs they could probably do pretty well with this system, like Giantslayer (all dwarf party FTW). However, I don’t see Paizo letting that happen unless PF Kingmaker does better than how its currently doing. Lot of lukewarm reviews on major game review sites and platforms.

Skull and Shackles would probably be the best carry-over given the systems Kingmaker already has in place, and it’s a pretty fun and popular AP as well. I’d opt for that one. I would vote against Jade Regent for the very simple reason that it is, at its heart, not a story about the party. It would require some dramatic rewriting to truly make it a story about the player and their party instead of a tale about Ameiko with the party helping her out. I can’t comment much on Hell’s Rebels since I’ve not had the joy of playing it, but that seems from what I’ve heard like it might be a pretty tightly alignment-restricted campaign.

Edit: I’d opt for Pathfinder without Kingmaker, but I think the Kingmaker part is pretty unique to this AP.

Pathfinder without Kingmaker. Although it was a cool element, if they could focus all of their efforts on just one aspect (for me it would be adventuring and RPG stuff) I think we might have a more refined product. This game is huge, and it was crazy ambitious, and I still love it.

Pathfinder without Kingmaker.

Pathfinder (1:st edition, not coming 2:nd edition) with another Adventure Path. But first fix the bugs, then give us atleast 3, most likely more DLC’s. Then consider some options like Skull and Shackles, Hell’s Rebels or maybe even Rise of the Runelords even thought well… …yes, it would be nice but there have been made few too many options for people who want to see and play it (card game, other computer game and so on. Yes they have not really been deep RPG games but still. For me when I were younger getting “yet another” game with Raistlin, Caramon and others was kind of bitter sweet. I did love them and DragonLance but too much is too much).

Pathfinder without timers, if I see even a single timer in the sequel I won’t be buying it no matter how good the story is.

Another AP.
Perhaps even an open system for people to mod the game, and create their own adventure (such as with NWN).
I would love to recreate some 3rd party AP : Way of the Wicked!!

Obviously another AP. There are many to chose from.

Hell’s Rebels would definitely get one of my votes.

A new AP is what I’d like too but I’ll take anything.

I agree with “no timed anything.” I really hate timed situations.

I wonder if Paizo will allow a new game to use Pathfinder 1.0 and not 2.0. I doubt it.

I’d pick the Mummy’s Mask.

A new AP. Personally I’d like to see Legacy of Fire, but for successful AP’s, I’d say Carrion Crown, Rise of the Runelords, Crimson Throne.

If you want interesting Subsystems, then definitely Hell’s Rebels and you could then follow it up potentially with Hell’s Vengeance. I wasn’t a huge fan of the subsystem in Serpent’s Skull. Ironfang is similar in timing and has a cool subsystem, but thematically is close to Kingmaker. Too close IMO for a good follow up game.

Never Starfinder, currently hard pass on PF2.

I am also for a new AP

Pathfinder 2: Wrath of the Righteous

I am acutely aware that the tabletop AP Wrath of the Righteous is relatively lackluster, in major part because of the grossly unbalanced and poorly playtested mythic tier system, but this is where the Owlcat team comes it.
The actual idea of this adventure of truly biblical proportions has a lot of merit though and I am confidant that the Owlcat team can make the AP in that truly epic adventure into something fun to play.
It is also an opportunity to because WotR has a military campaign mode and you essentially switch between the micro scale skirmishes and macro scale strategy mode were you have to handle supply lines, allies and battles. That way the strategic game mode of Kingmaker could be adapted and improved. This might seem trivial, but the kingdom building is not just a game in the game, it also serves to break up the pace of the tactical skirmish fighting.
I am the first to admit that the kingdom building in Kingmaker is not perfect, but it definitely has merit and is not half bad integrated into the overall experience.
What I wish for is for a game where that works better and WotR offers that chance in addition for offering a chance to fight play the fully realized potential for an adventure of truly biblical proportions.

Pathfinder without Kingmaker, as long as we’re talking Pathfinder 1E.

Any of the Adventure Paths would be good by me.