I'm really hopeful Owlcat learns from Kingmaker and releases this game when its ready

To me, polished Kingmaker is the best CRPG since the original BG’s came out.

That Kingmaker launch couldn’t have been more of a shi+eshow if they were trying to alienate their fans with multiple game breaking bugs.

Hopefully Owlcat has the resources, experience and patience to release a game that’s polished this time, because polished Kingmaker is one of my top 3 Crpg’s EVER and I’ve been playing since the original Bards Tale games came out.

Thanks Owlcat for making a great game and please don’t make me play a glorified alpha again, advertising it as a finished game.


Wrath alpha is already leaps and bounds ahead of P:K at launch. They were learning then.

Thats good to hear. I’ve been resisting the urge to upgrade my beta access to include alpha but haven’t had much luck navigating from the Kickstarter to these forums. If it wasn’t such a pain in the ass, I would probably be in the alpha at this point.

You might have pushed me over the top though. I might just have to try the alpha.


Since it’s technically impossible to release a more broken game than Kingmaker I see no reason to worry.


I don’t know what the issue was with P:K, meaning what exactly caused such bugs, but I think current corona situation makes thing really challenging. I would rather see game done than game done never. I understand it might be tear dropping to see all the bugs and be annoyed at the wait for bug fixes, but still, this is only a game.

As some have pointed out and Owlcat has mentioned in Kickstarter updates, they’ve learned a lot from Kingmaker and have better systems so they should be able to catch and fix a lot more bugs before release. That being said, I do still expect to have some bugs in the final product. CRPGs like these are huge and complicated, and Owlcat seems to like making big and ambitious games. As cool as the Mythic Paths sound and as interesting as the tactical combat seems, they are complicated new systems that will have lots of opportunities to break.

Delaying the game to fix most or all of the bugs would be nice from a customer perspective, but they might not have the budget to do it. Between the coronavirus forcing people to work from home and the fact that they had to use a Kickstarter budget, they may not have the budget to delay releasing the game just to fix bugs. I hope it releases with the minimal number of bugs, but I think we should all expect to deal with some still around at launch.


I expect some level of bugs as well. I don’t expect the product to be the Definitive edition on release day. I do expect it to have way more polish than Kingmaker.

Like I said, I think Kingmaker when it was polished is one of the best CRPG’s ever and am thrilled that Owlcat entered this market.

I just hope they don’t launch a game that you can’t play past Chapter 3 because a bug makes it impossible. I can take a few bugs here and there. I really hope their level of professionalism has increased to the point that they’ll launch a game you could play and finish on launch day, without having to wait for bug fixes to play the game, even though you just paid full price.

I just hope they become a developer that advertises their game honestly. If you’re selling me a beta for full price: that’s fine, I’ll pay for that. Let’s just be honest and say the game is still in early access.

I think the disaster known as Kingmaker launch was because the game was in Beta and the Owlcat developers didn’t tell us that.

My main concern is for the longevity of Owlcat, because I’ve been dying for a developer to make games this good since old school Bioware was making Baldur’s Gate games.

I love their polished game. I love their ruleset. I just hope Owlcat will stick around and keep making games as good as the polished Kingmaker for the next 20 years, which means you can’t alienate your customer base by lying about what you’re selling or rushing a product to market that isn’t finished.

Exactly my thoughts. After some disaster pulled by companies (I’m Looking at you Blizzard) about lying to the crowd, I lost some trust, but seeing their hard work and conviction I think Owlcatgames learned from the past and I hope people recognize the effort they already put into the game like fixing these horrific console versions of PF:K or the new features in Wrath (like the whole crusade mechanics).
So I keep my hope and expectations high and wait for the beta. Kickstarter and communication to us is already a lot better then it was with PF:K.

Only sad thing is the little part in our community who threaten and blame Owlcatgames. They really are not able to see the potential.

Thx for Reading


As long as Olwcat continues to make weird janky RTWP RPGs the chance of them getting rich is fairly slim therefore they have to make the games their small community wants to survive. Lots of devs had one big hit and then decided to make forgettable games for the masses and I don’t see that happening.

P:K was neither weird nor janky.

Wrath is already among the best 10 cRPGs of all time and that’s just in Alpha. They’re making plenty of money and that money goes a lot farther in RUS than in the US/EU.

I don’t understand why anyone would want to live in a dystopian fantasy but your take bears little resemblance to the reality in which Owlcat is operating.

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Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 were “weird, janky” RTWP Rpg’s and they were 2 of my top 3 Rpg’s ever. I’ve been playing Rpg’s since the 1980’s. Kingmaker, after receiving a ton of post-launch polish is in that same company as BG.

There’s a market for these games or EA wouldn’t have bought Bioware for Dragon Age and then turned it to a little kid, all-action, crap festival. Pillars had promise until they created their own rule set and then made the same mistake BG3 is making by making it easier to play and faster to develop. Both of those companies take too many short cuts.

Owlcat got it right and is miles ahead of their competitors with quality. It just took them a year after launch to fix the bugs.

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P:K was a great game. I played it many month after release so I do not know the bugs at release. The alpha of WotR is definitely in a better state now than P:K was at release.
But those are games for “hardcore RPG fans”. Very complex rules and tons of options with many different races, classes, feats, skills and so on. This is great for RPG fans, but I can totally understand if many players have problems to understand this and some of them say the game sucks because they do not understand it.

Dragon Age Origins ( did not play later ones ), Pillars of Eternity 1+2 are good games and I believe BG3 will be a huge success. There is nothing wrong with creating your own rule set or changing an existing one. There is no law " Every computer RPG must follow PnP rules as close as possible, else you are not allowed to call it RPG."
Different people like different kind of games and its OK that some are more complex than others.

Owlcat isn’t the only guilty party when talking about releasing an incomplete game. So long as we, the gamers, continue to buy incomplete games, developers will continue to shamelessy release them. I have no expectations. I hope you all enjoy the game on release, and I’ll wait two years for them to complete it. As is per usual for games in this day and age, regrettably