I am so close to just giving up on the game,

Pathfinder: Kingmaker General Discussions
#1

Between so many bad decisions about the game’s design like the entire intro being overly long boring and frustrating the dead end that most weapon groups are, and the absolutely incredibly inept Discord staff and insanely terrible community, getting this game was a huge mistake, any questioning of any bad feature is met with demands you either shut up and like bad design because of the poor adaptation, or mod it even if you are on consoles,

The discord Community is the worst part of all, Mods who order one person to stand down then allow others to keep onto them without any kind of warning, and users who literally have no debate other than telling you to mod the game or excuse any flaws by saying it’s in the table top, and then lose their minds and begin throwing a fit if you point out the game isn’t a table top, it’s an adaptation of one,

#2

Most of the itemization is gated behind artisans (i.e. Kingdom Management). In any event outside of some specific classes the rewards for specializing aren’t very high outside of RP considerations. It’s not a game that’s a good fit from people who jump to conclusions since there’s so much content there that no one masters it quickly and most of the complaints you hear end up being people that just aren’t familiar with the options that exist yet.

If you have a specific concern we’ll do our best to help you, but your general complaints are (literally - you give no evidence) unsupported and not the experience of many with the game. In fact we’re closer to the opposite.

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#3

Discord servers are almost always worse than forums for a variety of reasons. What issues are you having with the game? Plenty of people have come to the forums frustrated and been helped out by the community.

#4

I know all of this, i can deal with it, bit it’s still bad for the game to push weapon focus like it does recommending it all the time, and ending up in a dead end, which requires players to risk spoilers ect to be forewarned about,

so i suggested it may have been a good idea to do with weapon focus what they did with skills, compress it down to make it more manageable and to avoid players locking themselves into a bad build,

This was met with either demands that i mod the game, or that this change that is more or less the same as the one they used to simplify the skills system for a QOL change to the game, would make it not pathfinder anymore,

It’s less an issue of the game overall and more an issue with the largest and most active part of it’s community being needlessly confrontational over any complaints or criticisms, and then acting shocked when mocking people results in them responding with anger, especially when allot of them go on about their mods they use to solve these issues but then are so shocked people don’t kike the base versions, people running a crafting mod may not have much grounds to defend the poor weapon spread for example,

It’s less the game at this point and more the community there, i know i can be temperamental, i get that i come back to forcefully sometimes or can just angrily vent over things, but they constantly act like any critique is stupid and lame by default, never on any real merits of it’s own, i point out that i think the enemies in the intro having sneak attack is bad because it can get character’s knocked out and thus make a part of the game that you have to play through many times more tedious? they just act like the mere mere idea of pointing it out is wrong by itself or again tell me to mod it,

I have uninstalled the game and either left or was banned from the discord legit can’t remember if i ever clicked the leave button or not, so i can settle down and try to relax, and come back in a day or few, more clear minded,

#5

Where does it push Weapon Focus?

People bring into the game a lot of preconceived ideas/habits from other games and apply it to this one without thinking and so miss out on the fun since the thinking is the main fun of the game. The reason specialization is de-emphasized is to make Martial Proficiency something valuable instead of the afterthought it often is in other games.

The point of the intro is to learn the basics of the game. Avoiding and applying Sneak Attacks qualifies. If this offends you then you’re missing the entire appeal of this sort of game - you’re meant to struggle at first then enjoy improving as you learn what made you struggle. If you enjoy/expect faceroll that market is already well served.

#6

The weapon focus feat is always recommended by the game for any class that qualifies or at least seems to be, a newer player stepping in is going to trust that the game is trying to help them out, and will assume that the weapons will be mostly evenly distributed,

I would argue that having one enemy who can sneak attack would be better, rember at level one 1d6 is possibly insta down for a large number of characters, which when combined with the lack of properly implemented tanking and the fact that you have to wait so long for one of the melee companions makes it tedious and stressful, especially considering the lack of a skip option for it, and it’s not even a matter of difficulty, it i was just concerned with that i could turn down enemy damage to 20%, it’s that normal should be designed to be fair, and not have cheap one hit downs,

Again the issue is less overall the game, and more how the community responds to criticism, or feedback, console players can’t fix our issues with the game, we have to get the devs to add or change things for us, we can’t add new portraits, we need the devs to add an image importer or just add more portraits, we can’t mod in crafting or new weapons we need the mods to address it, so we have to bring it up, then we get shouted at and told again either to mod it despite it not being an option or told that it’s how it is on the table top regardless of the fact that other things were already changed,

#7

Recommended by the game?

What does this mean? Check mark? It’s better than nothing but the point is you experiment with things and see what works better or worse.

3.5 damage shouldn’t be nearly enough to one shot you unless you’re dumping CON, which will really hurt you by producing Fatigue when traveling. Where are you even getting flanked? Before the puzzle rooms? Most of the other fights the main threat is ranged so if you close to melee with one of your toons you’re good.

We’re telling you that most of these things you’re worried about are things the player is expected to solve (and enjoy solving!) rather than flaws in the game. You’ll have a better experience if you think of them that way.

#8

You don’t need to mod in new weapons, the game has tons.

#9

I think you make a good point here. Weapons are not balanced in this game (or such games). Players have to beat the game at least one time to figure out which weapon types are good. But most people won’t play a game twice (even without the kingdom management system). Another similar problem is that a new player can easily mess up if he plays as a sorcerer.

The good news is we have Eight Eyes. Players can respec their character at any time. So the issue is more or less addressed. Another good news is players are offered different paths to take in Owlcat’s next game, which will encourage players to beat the game multiple times.

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#10

Cant share your opinion, cause i have only good memories with community and the game

You talked about being temperamental so maybe it was just misscommunication.
If someone treats you that way then first tell him, second give him a warning and third tell community manager. Server rules have a reason.

Been in this forum for over a year and was never treated that bad, but instead was allowed to read over a lot of bullshit people are complaining about. Balance here, decision there… Its kinda annoying, so i can imagine how people feel who played this game and were active in the community far longer then me. So maybe it was just a bad time. Your complain hit the wrong person and a fight starts. I recomend either try discord a week later or ask a trusted person in private. I cant imagine every member treats you like u described us.

Have a Nice Day!

#11

Again, in this game whether weapon types are balanced or not (by and large they are anyway if you get your artisans up) isn’t a relevant concern for all but a few character classes.

90% of trouble people have with this game is relying too much on preconceived notions rather than playing P:K and/or the Pathfinder ruleset. Martial Proficiency matters in this ruleset, if you have it you don’t need to worry about weapon types. If you don’t you should pay a penalty, but it’s a penalty that’s readily dealt with by grabbing an Exotic Proficiency or a splash if it’s something that concerns you (most classes without Martial Proficiency have an action economy that doesn’t benefit from being overly concerned with weapon types anyway).

#13

I agree with you that players suffer from their prior knowledge instead of the game flaws in most cases.

What I am thinking is that players need to pick a specific weapon type for feats like weapon focus or improved critical. But some types are rare in the game; some types do not have good end-game weapons (e.g., Serpent Prince). I know if I choose to focus on unusual weapons like falcata, I should take the consequence. But I think the game can be more enjoyable if weapons are more evenly distributed, or players are allowed to reforge weapons.

#14

Best weapon is game is Falcata.

Bashful Lion's Claw Crit
Bashful Lion's Claw Crit1356×1080 361 KB

Improved Crit is often moot due to spells and abilities and Weapon Focus is very marginal. Almost all Weapon types have unique endgame versions.

#15

Yeah but some of those end game weapons are purely inferior to others, hence why i would have wanted broader weapon coverage or to have unique weapons be templates that can be applied to any weapon of the same damage dice,

#16

No, they really aren’t. There’s a remarkable variety. Again, you rarely need to specialize in a certain weapon type anyway. You’re playing a different game.

#17

Limitation of Player choices always dont feel so great. I agree with you on this point and Sky made a good suggestion by allowing the player to reforge a Weapon you like into the weapon type u want or like you said make it possible to craft certain items based on templates and recipes.

Thats why in my later playthroughs i either didnt pick weapon focus until i found a suitable weapon (like in case of Amiri who performs really great regardless of the weapon xd) or i didnt pick it at all . Pathfinder dont force you, cause a really good class conzept beats every weapon ingame. (my Opinion)

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#18

I would never select an exotic weapon profiency unless I know the game so well that I know where to find what weapon and I am sure that it is better than any weapon I am already profient with.
I would also not create a char that is totally focused on one weapon type unless I know exactly where to find which weapon.

For chars with martial weapon profiency, just take the best weapon you find and maybe keep a spare weapon in case the other weapon is good against some kinds of enemies.
If a class is not profient with martial weapons, than hitting things hard with a weapon is probably not the main focus of this class. Wizards cast spells, kinecticists use their blasts and alchemists use bombs and support spells and so on. In most easy fights those chars just attack with their weapon anyway (well, kinecticists use the default blast), but in hard fights those chars shine because they do something else than just hitting things with a weapon.

It can make sense to give chars a profiency for some specific builds, but as a rule of thumb, profiencies are a bad choice because most classes are already profient with stuff they can do well.

PS:
Desiderius, how do you get 7 attacks per round?

  • You use a weapon so you are not transformed to a dragon or something similar.
  • You have BAB13, judgement and divine power which means you are a lv18 inquisitor.
  • BAB13 + divine power means 4 attacks per round.

Where do the other attacks come from?
I do not see how an inquisitor could get 3 bite attacks, for example.

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#19

Arguably grouping weapons steps on the fighter’s toes (weapon training.) Of course the main feature of 3.x fighters is feats, and they get even more in pf. And while flat stat increases are gravy, combat maneuvers are often more fun and effective. With the flat damage increase usually being the best, but multiclassing can help there. Then again why not both? There are plenty of feats for dipping fighter. In NWN improved critical is arguably better than specialization. That would even be true of NWN2 if not for the fact that so many foes are crit immune in the OC.

So, that’s a take it or leave it for me. I mean it worked well enough in BG because most weapons have at best a basic plus two or three. Which is why people claim blunt weapons, small swords, and large swords are the best categories. There is also the the route of just making flat increase feats apply to all weapons one is proficient in. But that would be more disastrous in terms of power boost to fighters in this system. (Although, does that even matter?)

Crafting or forging, then, steps on the toes of itemization. Of course a game can have set items which have unique properties that cannot be created. That, however, is essentially the same problem. Of course Morrowind manged well enough. It’s crafting is beyond broken when you push on it, but practically all weapon types work well with stock, even if they are rather unbalanced. HotU is worse, but it tried to balance forging by limiting the amount of item upgrades you can make. A glitch works around this and plus eight weapons are available in the last chapter. Well, of most weapons. For example, the mace is only a plus one or two except against undead. But the best step is to find the best set item and upgrade it to a plus ten, bad system. Even better that they threw a wrench into the system by having a unique plus twelve katana for weapon masters. You know, the class that requires focusing on a single weapon type.

So it’s fine either way, but good itemization makes better games either way. And weapon types need not be balanced, even less so in dandyesque games, where fighters are still rather effective without the bonuses, and even with an attack penalty like in IE games. And of course I would say that, I like hammers.

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#20

Shield Bash

Bashful Shield Bash
Bashful Shield Bash1380×1080 379 KB

This was a Crusader build, probably the best class for Shield Bashing since your Fast Spell progression eventually gets you to Frightful Aspect and doubling up on Divine Power is strong. Don’t really have the Feats to get there on regular Cleric. The Judgement was from a Tactical Leader in the group that can share Judgements at a high level. Notice also the Vanguard.

Lion’s Claw works well with it since it has 15-20 crit range with Improved Crit to proc Bashing Finish. Obv you can design around an Exotic but better I think to just use best available to keep yourself open then if one shows up (like Serpent Prince) you grab the proficiency then.

#21

I liked NWN2 where you could craft weapons (and other stuff).
You need a mold, materials, money, the right spell, enough crafting skill and crafting feats.
If you have that you can create any weapon or armor you like.
Items you find are still good because they can have properties you cannot create yourself and crafting needs some efford to get all requirements.

Its not needed to finish the game, but if you want you could craft a holy and burning katana+3 made of silver to become a vampire hunting samurai :wink:

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