How to fix bad arcane spell access for npcs?

Hey everyone,

I played through, i think, about 75% of the alpha now and i ran into an issue with the npcs available in these early stages. Essentially, trying to optimize them to be good casters with their assigned stats and class is a mess.

The glaring issue is that companion access to some of the best arcane spells is essentially non-existant. none of them have access to either blur, good hope, displacement, haste or slow. Ironically, the rogue companion can learn them (except good hope) but he is highly limited by his level and his spellslots. If he stays in his rogue/wizard hybrid subclass, the highest he will get is probanly 6th level spells, meaning we would need someone else to get good offensive high level magic. Interestingly, the witch only has 1 good level 3 spell, heroism, which can already be learned by just about anyone else. But she is also the only one with glitterdust, so she cant be removed easily as it stands.

The best ive come up with so far is retraining ember to a bard asap and reteaining devan from an oracle to a sorceror. This would leave sojial (?) As a cleric healer and a cleric-ish full caster as an alternative. However, if this respeccing isnt bound to difficulty as it currently is in alpha, it still completely breaks their background story and immersion.

Ive looked into expanding devan’s and camillia’s spell lists by using mythic path abilities to get them a second spirit/mystery but this doesn’t seem to work the way it does in pen and paper.

Is there a mythic feat to learn spells from other classes like in pnp? Is there some way i am.overlooking other than forcing the mc to be an arcane caster?

1 Like

Companions get mystic feats, but those only improves stuff they already have.

Only the player character gets a mystic path so (s)he can get new spells from being an angel, demon and so on.

Yes, the cast of companions now is less diverse than PK. You have 3 full divine casters but no full arcane caster ( Ember as witch misses lots of the typical wizard spells) and the only rogue/arcane caster/skill monkey is missing for large parts of the game.

If you look at what roles are missing in your party, its probably best to have a main char similar to Octavia in P:K, a wizard who can also act as rogue.

1 Like

Agree with Mad Scientist. Wrath appears to strongly incentivize the player character to be a Bard or Wizard/Sorceror. But let’s be honest…we’re all going to roll lich or azata anyway…so we’re all going to start as bards or wizards or tricksters.

Frankly, I’m surprised there isn’t a dhampir wizard…dhampir were the race Owlcat chose to add to the game pre-Kickstarter, and I would have bet a lot money that we’d see a dhampir character (and a wizard would be a natural fit to the cast.

I can’t complain too much. The characters generally seem to be well built and viable (although one particular character’s feat choices are a head twister). If there are gaps, the party with companions will still be strong.

1 Like

Really? Wodjik is missing for large parts of the game? Was that confirmed somewhere? Getting +4 spells per spell level on him from mythic path abilities currently seems like the most viable way to solve the problem, and hope the endgame witch or shaman spells are not that much worse than the wizard ones. Camillia has legendary proportions, at least.

I never really knew the witch spell list was so terrible, but it does really hurt the party. Going into this, i figured either her or the shaman would have the vital buffs/debuffs somewhere, but neither of them do. If wodjik is afk for large parts of the campaign, then only the mc has potential access to good arcane spells. It makes me wonder if Radiance will make it in and if that would be tied to the mc only. If it is, it would force you to choose between having access to the artefact or arcane spell access, which feels really bad.

If you did not recruited him, he just disappears after a certain event of the game because the writing team is not done yet to give him more content at this stage of Alpha. That’s why he goes missing.

1 Like

3 full divine caster but no single full arcane caster? wondering what’s the reason owlcat going this approach? would it be suxs that the MC will need to fulfill the role of a full arcane caster? that leave the MC without much choices or full arcane wasn’t necessary?

1 Like

I’m not sure. Ember is supposed to fill the role of arcane spellcaster, but she is a cha-based witch with an oracle curse. Her spell list is, imo, really bad for an arcane caster. Worse, the best witch hex, ice tomb (? essentially an at-will save or die) is one she doesn’t have and will probably be locked behind the winter witch prestige class that will be added later.

A workaround for the early game would be reclassing her into bard or sorceror instantly since she has high dex and cha as main stats. However, you can’t really do that since she starts at witch level 3 and reclassing as an option seems to be bound to lower difficulty. And even if you did, it still either leaves the party without an arcane caster capable of using the higher level arcane ones or it leaves you with a main caster that gets his spell levels 2 whole character levels later than a wizard would (assuming one level witch is forced and then picking sorceror for the rest).

What the party really needs atm is a non-good full arcane caster to fill the largest void currently in the roster. The other void in the roster is a support buffer like a bard or evangelist cleric. If those roles aren’t filled by NPC’s, the module essentially heavily pushes the main character towards either the caster or the bard, as Raikan said.

There is still one compion we no nothing about.

Doing a basic maths count, at release there were i believe 11 companion NPC’s available, and in the Alpha so far we have 8. There is always a chance the “arcane” part of the party NPC’s havent been added yet, either to the alpha or they get introduced after teh Alpha ends.
But yes, i also was wondering why the game is so heavily divine focused so far :slight_smile:

In alpha we have 8 comp, but 2 more are already revealed to be 100% companion too. This leaves 1 companion unrevealed and I hope it is arcane caster.

I’m not the best at keeping up, can you point me at where the 2 revealed ones who arent in the alpha are? :slight_smile:

Technically they are in alpha. Just cannot recruit them yet.
Arueshalae - Succubus with custom archetype Ranger with Cha as casting stat instead of Wis (both artworks, class was mentioned in one of the streams)
Greybor - Dwarf with Slayer and then Assassin(reworked by Owlcat) prestige class (survey).

Big maybe, read at your own risk.

There are some speculation about if datamined possible companion is even real and if it is last or if it is just ranger replacement for Lann.
More with name and portrait can be seen in this thread:

The ‘problem’ at hand might get solved by the Loremaster Prestige Class:

The fourth is the loremaster, who takes obsession with various pieces of knowledge to the extreme. Loremasters hone their magical and combat skills by learning long-forgotten secrets. Able to learn new feats, skills, and spells, including ones from other classes, loremasters are a class for people who want to bring versatility to their current spellcaster class. The class was lacking unique abilities in its original version, and our changes incorporated from other pen-and-paper classes should make it more interesting for character-building enthusiasts. Secrets include the ability to gain spells from other classes and even the ability to get a bonus feat without its prerequisites.

After completing the alpha, I can confirm that the lack of arcane buffs felt like a real drag. I didn’t notice the issue until near the end because the slumber hex really carried early on. But by the end (lvl 6-8), I really wanted spell level 2 heroism from a bard and desperately wanted haste. I went with an uninspired but effective 2-handed invulnerable rager for my PC, but feel like the current strongly encourages an arcane caster PC. The best solution, IMO, would be to switch Camelia’s spell book to the bard spell list. She would perform a similar role to her current build, but her spells wouldn’t be as redundant with the other divine casters, which you have to take anyway for the healing support.

1 Like

Yeah, that would mechanically work too. However, i think her entire lore is written around channeling spirits.

I, on other hand want Camellia spellbook to stay same and would consider your suggestion as worst one.
I would like Mythic feat to add 1 spell to each 1-3 spell levels (together 3 spells) from other spellbooks, then improved version with 4-6 spell levels and lastly greater version with 7-9.

The problem with just swapping her spells is shes a shaman, which is a Divine Caster with its own spell list. If they just start arbitrarily changing things, the appeal to some players (me included) that these games are not just “based off” but actually use the pathfinder system and knowledge translates goes out the window pretty sharpish. To change her spell book within the system, you’d need to change her class.
Frankly, they just need to have a proper arcane caster NPC. Since most NPC’s have been experimenting with are the “less common” classes, just make an Arcanist NPC.

Isn’t her class made up, though (like Ember’s)? If we’re inventing a class, it seems like it can be changed. And she’s a spirit hunter–it seems thematically appropriate that she not use divine magic because she’s hunting spirits.

In any event, I didn’t say it’s a likely solution, just the easiest to implement.

Her spells are largely redundant with both Sosiel and Daeran. They don’t add much. Your proposal might work, but it seems to blur class identity and the numbers would need to be tweaked to be competitive with other mythic feats and to supply enough access to arcane.

This would work too. The benefit of changing Camelia is that she then becomes a useful addition to the party. As currently built, her spells are largely redundant w/ Sosiel or Daeran (which you more or less have to take for healing) and her hexes are redundant with Ember (which is less necessary, but is the only arcane caster yet).

Also, she’s not really a shaman. She’s a custom class invented for Wrath. Since they are “arbitrarily changing things” from PF, we might as well be reasonable rather than arbitrary.

She could be a Skald…