Help me build my winning party?

I’m planning to play goodie two shoes
my prefered party would be:
Seelah, Sosiel, Lann, Arueshalee, Ember
melee, melee, ranged, ranged, ranged
fighter, healer, archer, archer, witch
but would like to replace Sosiel with Camellia, but she’s evil. Is Arueshalae a ranged ranger?

I’m wondering would Skald with trickery focus do justice to this party?

I think a full divine caster is a must. I´d keep Sosiel.

And yes, a Skald with trickery focus is an excellent MC for such a party. Someone in the party must disarm traps and open locks, and the Skald add a nice 2nd tier combat and buff capability as well.

In TT Arueshalae is a ranged combatant, but her non mythical class is master spy, which is closer to a bard or rogue.

Camellia is basicly a full divine caster. It is definetly possile to replace sosiel with her and have no cleric or oracle. I did it in the first alpha and it worked quit good. The problem would be more her beeing kind of evil which I personly dont mind although playing a good char.

If you realy insist on only good companions you must play something trickery related as your main. But that should be super easy with the new addition of backgrounds

Well it is a bit early to say what will be their skills. If they only have 5 levels set up in advance and feats are in general areas (like iron will) that might lead to being able to have arueshalee for instance be specced into melee or ranged role. If they are more stated and given ranged weapon feats before a player can add levels that might happen.

Yes, Aru is a Ranged Ranger. Her Hunter’s Bond abilitity shares half of her Favoured Enemy Bonus with her team. Since she has a big bonus vs Demons this can really boost everyone’s performance. Her special class gives her Perception as she levels and she can take Perception Focus for her next Combat Style Feat to make a great Perception specialist.

Sosiel is better than he looks. There are a lot of good Glaives and with Abundant Casting you can spam Divine Favor and Divine Power to really help his performance in combat. Since those give a luck bonus they stack with about anything. Later he can add Eaglesoul and Holy Sword.

His Charming Smile is a Swift Action and Enlarged with a Glaive he has a lot of Reach so he gets a lot of Attacks of Opportunity. He can end up Fighting, Casting, and Charming all at once.

Try out Impossible Domain Mythic Ability with Nobility Domain at level 8 for Inspiring Command as well. He’s the only companion who can get this since he’s the only one with a Domain.

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She’s lacking Shield of Faith and Archon’s Aura as well as Channeling.

Current lineup is:

MC Freebooter with Dirty Trick, Charge Armor, and Ever Ready for AoOs.

Seelah as Pal1/Dirge Bard for Inspire Courage, Good Hope, and Mythic Intimidating Dazzling Display to get everyone Shaken

Lann as Monk2/Drovier to get Wolf for Trip and + 4 CMB Aura (his Druid spells will replace Camellia)

Camellia/Woljif to cover Trickery (when Wolj returns Cam leaves for good)

Sosiel for Cleric spells, Reach fighting, and Domain abilities

Ember for Hexes (bypass Spell Resistance) and Summons with some burn thrown in

I haven’t personally played a skald before (either PNP or in WOTR Alpha), but morale bonuses to strength and constitution (mainly strength) will work reasonably well for that party. The conventional wisdom is that skalds are for melee parties that like strength, but both archers like strength (for composite bows) and Sosiel will like use a 2H glaive (which also likes strength). I suspect, however, that you’ll get slightly more from a bard overall because the competence bonus applies both to-hit and to-damage, which will help Ember for ray spells (a skald will not), be better for Lann/Aru because of the to-hit bonus, be equal for Seelah, and slightly worse than the Skald for a 2H Sosiel because of the bonus % scaling on strength for power attack and a 2H weapon.

You’ll want a trickery character, if you don’t include Camelia or Woljiff, but that won’t be difficult w/ backgrounds. Or you could just skip every locked chest and door and feel bad for the entire game.

I personally prefer a 2nd melee character with high AC, if my party lacks an animal companion or a reliable summoner. Sometimes you’ll have combat where it’s front & back; sometimes your first tank will die or be feared or miss a save-or-suck (although your chance of failed saves is low with a paladin); and sometimes you want team work feats for your melee (outflank, shield wall, etc.). Lann might be able to Legolas-tank with a dexterity after point blank master–although I haven’t tested it myself–and a Skald might be able to have a high enough AC with mithril medium armor and enough mirror image/blur/DR from rage. But there’s some anti-synergy with a skald tank because he’ll want to stack strength to capitalize on his buff, but he’ll need dexterity to boost his AC. Again, a bard is probably more flexible because she could stack dexterity, grab fencing/slashing grace, and still benefit from the to-hit and damage buffs of her song. Alternatively, you could have Ember or Sosiel function primarily as a summoner and just roll with Seelah.

I’d encourage you to consider Nenio over Ember. Without rehashing the “are witches useless” debate from another thread, witches miss some useful arcane spells. The most important of these is haste–which a bard or skald can provide. I’d suggest you look at the 2-3 or so arcane spells that you really want to have from lvl 1-9, and then see whether bard + witch leaves gaps.


Ember can be realy strong as an offensive caster. The big problem is indeed the lack of haste/displacement. These two buffs are so strong and useful over the whole game that I feel, theres no justification to miss them. So you are kind of forced to combine ember with either wolfji or an arcane MC. Otherwise Nenio seems just superior from her spelllist

A realy interesting thing Nenio allows you, is to completly run without an divine caster late game. Her UMD/Scroll specialist levels go so high that she can cast all divine scrolls mid to lategame. The important ones are all buyable. Wouldnt recomend completly dumping a divine caster as scrolls arent unlimited and expensive but it allows you to make Camellia your primary divine caster while shes missing some of the important spells (like deathward). For that loss Camellia has better combat power than a cleric and some usefull arcane/unique shaman spells.
And yes, I know im missing channeling with this group build. Tried in the alpha and didnt mind. There enough other healing options

The Bard spell set is really distinct from Arcane alone in this game, as is Alchemist. I considered both nearly essential in P:K so have trouble appreciating the problems people are having with Ember. Didn’t even bother giving Bard Haste/Displacement in P:K because always got them from Alchemist, but could always get them from Bard too. They’re rnd/lvl so not really practical to use early game in any case (wand for boss).

Long story short if you’re missing those two spells you’ve got bigger problems than those two spells.

Really liking building Ember as Conjuration Focus Summoner/AoE controller who skips Spell Pen feats because Hexes ignore Spell Pen. Lets you get Improved Initiative to land CC/Hexes before mobs act then Augment/Superior Summoning along with Mythic Summoning.

All preferences. I never had any bard or alchemist in my group in Kingmaker and still beat it on hard dificulty. Never liked these classes roleplaying wise (aswell as Linzi and jubilost) and since none of the companion in Wotr is one of these classes there is no reason for me too use one of these.
While pathfinder is realy hard, its not like youre forced to use a specific group to beat the game on hard. As long as your overall builds and synergies are fine there are tons of options (Might be diferent on unfair dificulty). One arcane, one divine, a frontline and ranged damage dealers and youre fine.

Im confident that I can beat Wotr on core without a cleric/oracle and instead Camellia and without bard/Alch. Worked in the alpha and should be fine lategame. Definetly not the optimal group but for me the most fun.

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No doubt you can. You will be playing de facto Hard on Core (or Unfair on Hard without damage doubling, which could be ideal) because it’s so difficult to replace the unique effects of those classes (Bard: partywide competence/morale/dodge* bonuses to attack/damage/saves/HP/skills/AC, Alchemist: infusions, powerful touch attax that bypass SR and carry high DC debilitating effects).

WotR gives you Martyr for another option to Inspire Courage (Sensei was always better than it looked), and now that you can no longer stack Dirge/Fascinate/Fear with Courage/Greatness/Heroics Bard does take a step down.

I’m just too addicted to Good Hope (can get there with Skald now!) and now with Dirge Bard getting free Intimidate bonus with level along with Mythic Dazzling Display it’s going to be hard to pass that up.

I played without either one on Alpha 1 and enjoyed struggling with some things for a change so there is something to be said for that approach. Once you get DEX to damage on Camellia and Enemy Bane she can certainly lay down the hurt. And she has a (very) poor man’s Good Hope.

She’s just missing Archon’s Aura. Another one of those groupwide difficulty level reducers.*

    • importance being stacking + partywide. The four essential classes for this approach = Bard/Skald, Alchemist (including subtypes), Freebooter, Cleric/Pal.

Aru has a similar effect with her Hunter’s Bond vs Demons, as does Wolj Debilitating and Camellia Hampering to a lesser extent