Gestalt character option!

Gotta be honest here, I have never had as much fun as when I tried to create the most broken characters, and team I could. I love it. I love the theory and figuring out what works with what, how the rules are implemented and how to take further advantage of that.

When I first discovered this unofficial rule in pathfinder 1:E, of making a character using two classes at the same time… Love is in the air, haha!

It works like this:
At character creation you have the option to level 2 classes at once. This halves the experience you receives, making you level half as fast as others. But when you do level up you gain a level in both of the classes.
If you want to multiclass you would treat the original 2 classes as a single class, making the new class be added to the list as normal.

As for BAB, HP, Saves, feats and abilities (SU/SE) you just take the highest and discard the rest. so if a gave +1 will saves and another gave +2, you gain the +2. In the case of BaB the same thing applies, if you have a fighter/wizard then the fighter BaB would be the one that is counted, the wizards would be ignored.

You as programmers just need to add an experiance nerf on this optional thing. then make it so that when we level we get the opiton to level as normal or to multiclass. If we level as normal we of course gain the two levels. If we multiclass then we get to choose a new class. If we already multiclassed then we choose multiclass again to add levels to that multiclassed… class. Or we can pick something ells.

If you think it’s absolutly broken, you could not be more wrong. Sure it is, if you manage to get to level 11(11 in two classes is what a character at level 22 would be able to get) or more. But if you don’t then you will have half the hp of others, fk all chance to hit with a low BaB. Less spell levels and so on.

This is mostly for the min/maxers, the theory crafters and those of us who just wanna stare at the character creation screen for 400 hours+. People like me :smiley:

I’m sure you know how to do this.
Hope I explained it well enough xD

This siad: What would you make if you could get double classes from 1-20. Personally, sorcerer/bloodrager with the abyssal bloodline. How stronk can I get! haha!

I think what you’re describing is similar to the old D&D 2e Dual-Class do you have a reference to the unofficial Pathfinder rules that you’re talking about?

Currently implemented on Bloodrager/Sorcerer, sort of good immediate news there. If you don’t have beta, most/all of the Mythic Path feats and abilities are listed here. Both of those classes can take Second Bloodline which isn’t full extra levels, but it’s a full 2nd set of bloodline abilities including the level 20 one. Bloodrager can get Limitless Rage which essentially keeps their more powerful bloodline abilities active at all times.

And I do always feel obligated to mention that Pathfinder doesn’t have monsters that could challenge a level 21+ character. Ok, obligation completed.

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Gestalt Characters :: d20srd.org.

This is where I first saw mention of it. :smiley:
And no i dont have beta, too poor for it atm :_(

Biggest reason for the Bloodrager/Sorcerer was to grab the Crossblooded Sorcerer with the Abyssal/Orc bloodline, which is not in the game, very sad. The goal being to be the strongest in the world. Holding my thumbs for Orcs to eventually be a playable race and the bloodline to come with them. But that’s just me.

Oh, literally called “Gestalt Characters” :sweat_smile:

Getting into the weeds here, I’m not sure that the Abyssal and Orc abilities would stack as they’re both Inherant bonuses.

Where did you get that rule about experience ? Never read about it anywhere mentionning Gestalt, neither does it show on your link. Gestalt characters progress normally as far as experience is concerned.

For those who are interested, here is a home-made adaptation of Gestalt for Pathfinder, but there are others :

And Gestalt, although I’m sure they can be used and abused by min/maxers to great effect, are just a bit more powerful than standard characters.
Two things limit their powers :

  • Point-buy abilities to share among TWO classes. It’s not always a problem, but it can be.
  • Actions. You only get one action, as WotC were keen on reminding everybody on your link. So Gestalt won’t necessary be able to do much more than a specialized character in one round. However, they’ll be more versatile and have more flexibility. It will be much easier to make a know-it-all and independant character, that’s for sure.

I don’t see how this is any different from alternating levels between two classes, except that by alternating, the player will receive 1 of the level ups earlier whereas the gestalt would increase the level of both classes when the player has enough experience to increase their level in the 2nd class.

Well, as for Gestalt as the OP posted, you are right.
Real Gestalt can raise to level 20 in both classes, there is no XP split whatsoever, they basically gain class abilities for both classes at each level, Class skills of both classes, and get the best of Skill points, BAB, HP and Saves of both classes, which is quite better than a multi-class character.
However, the rules for Gestalt were, I think, designed for single-class progression (so two single-classes), and it gets murky as soon as you begin to add multi-classing and prestige classes in the mix

That’s a fair point. I can’t really think of any circumstances where there would be enough experience points to get to lvl 20 in both classes. Oftentimes there isn’t even enough to hit lvl 20 in a single class or a 10/10 split, but if there were such a campaign, Gestalt would be better because it is effectively raising the level cap from 20 to 40.

Not really, you would not have the BAB, Saves, skill points and HP of both classes added up, just the class abilities.

The difference lies in how far you can take two classes. Allowing you to gain level 20 in two classes.

Gotta be honest here, I have no idea of where I read about the experience. I keep looking but I can’t find it :S sorry.
Might be that I just assume things and took the rule from Baldur’s gate where you could be something like a fighter/mage a the cost of exp gain. Still think it makes sense to give some sort of experience penalty, but if there is no rule then I hate assuming things.

Damn why didn’t I read your post sooner! That’s totally where I think I got it from! Smacks head

I’m happy to see the Mythic Path :smiley: gonna be fun messing with that.

As for no monster balanced for 21+ characters, you just gotta remove some party members for that, which you might need to do anyway due to the exp not being enough. (if we go by exp penalty rules.)

Sadly you are absolutely correct and I never even thought to check it. Very sad right now… I need a minute.

Yet again the pathfinder system finds a way to break my way of breaking it. sad face

The Gestalt system is not meant for a full party. DnD 3 rules (I think it first appeared in the 3rd Ed. Unearthed Arcana sourcebook) explicitly says it fits more the “3-or-less players table”, even though they can be used for a more powerful campaign with a full party.

Personnaly, at my 2-players table, we used a slightly less powerful version of Gestalt, that we called “ghost levels” and that worked great for us. And since we did not min/max nor really optimized our characters, they were still less powerful than same-level normal characters. But they were great characters to play. Still my favorite character of the many hundreds characters I’ve created and played in all my RPGs in more than 30 years of gaming.

I remember the Gestalt option in Unearthed Arcana 3.5, it did sound quite fun. Perhaps it could be an option for a less numerious party (of say 3-4 instead of 6)?

It certainly gives characters a lot more flexibility and bonuses, even though technically they are limited by the number of actions per round that they can take, but then you would need to be able to make pre-made companions and/or mercs into Gestalt too.