Differences Mythic classes make to the story

Pathfinder: WotR Discussions
#1

I’m trying to wrap my head around how the story ties into the Mythics and how that choice affects everything afterward. On one hand, the WotR module exists and dictates the broad stroke of the story and campaign, history and objectives, big bads, etc. The practical way to tie a game into this dynamic would be to make the Mythics into special classes and have them all go through the same quest and motions. Reusing maps and assets, less material that’s used exclusively for one Mythic, cut down on work at the expense of novelty, etc. That’s how the average isometric title would handle this.

However, Owlcat have promised us that each Mythic plays differently, and they all have different ethos and concepts behind them, so (presumably) while the locations and broad quests and locations would remain the same, what each Mythic does there is different. At a particular fortress, for instance, an Angel might encounter an enemy general to slay, the Lich might go to the grave site of a powerful entity to raise and bind, the Dragon might redeem the enemy general (or find someone else who can be redeemed), and so on; same locations, different objectives tied to the Mythics and classes. Does this sound like a valid direction given what we’ve heard so far? If so, it feels like the sort of roleplaying story that would turn unique pretty quick, especially if it starts early.

That said, it raises the question of what some of the Mythics will do in these places. The Lich’s goal is to experiment on the undead and shed his own mortality, the Azata’s is to purify, the Aeon’s is to the reset the balance of things. But what is the Trickster’s purpose and main goal? What purpose does he serve in the larger scheme of things? And what about the Legend? Will he have all the opportunities of some of the Mythics (to kill the enemy and avenge the dead - Angel - or to redeem - Dragon) without having the benefits? Choose any path without restrictions? Or will he have a different goal altogether to reflect that this is a mortal out of his league?

Thoughts?

#2

Goal of Trickster is probably (maybe???) to have fun at other people/outsiders/gods expense, even if as result it would mean embroiling every plane in war, Trickster would do it. Tricksters plans and commands make no sense but these plans yield best possible result for Trickster’s allies and worst result for enemies.
And from what I saw, Trickster changes reality. From fictious and 100% fake stories he can create truth.

To what I think Trickster would do with enemy general. Trickster would get hands on orders, and change the words, so that it says to destroy another enemy general. Both armies would then wipe themselves out.

Nobody knows, other what is written on game page, that it is to refuse outside power and is as “crazy” as Gold Dragon and Swarm and as them it is chosen later than others.
Owlcat has refused to say more about the Legend.

#3

My guess is that the Legend Path uses the pure, untarnished essence of the Mythic power granted by Iomedae so youre basically following in her footsteps from mortality towards goodhood. At least this is my hope for the Path.

Since its untarnished it would explain why its one of the 3 more crazy Paths and like the other two would need more time to bloom. This is in addition to having no other Mythic source that supports the essence.

What powers this entails is beyond me though. There was no note of an alignment attributed to it and the idea of getting Iomedae themed power is ejected for Evil Legends.

Maybe its a bit like Vampire: Redemption where you can pick up powers along your journey based on your decisions. You could pick up a Lich themed power, an Angel themed power, even one of the other 2 crazy Paths powers or something else entirely, if so than likely much later in the game than any of the other Paths.

#4

I think Owlcat changed how MC gained mythic power altogether, from what I saw in alpha, Iomedae is no longer the source.
On discord some people revealed that Legend, Dragon and Swarm are not alingment locked path.
I also think Legend will be rejecting any kind power and help from outsiders and making sure that nothing goes exactly as one of the antagonist plans.

Spoilers from alpha

Like not shooting from crossbow in prologe and picking choice to not take Old lab journal.

#5

From the little of what we know of the Legend is that it’s main concept stems from the refusal of all mythic paths. Owlcat once described the Legend as a power only mortal can utilize. So any kind of outsider or otherwise mythical entities will likely be not be a focus there. This of course would also include deities.

#6

That’s an interesting concept, how the Trickster makes perfect defeat into a perfect victory - that’s literally what turning a 1 into a 20 does, after all. Makes me think that a Trickster could target both sides of the war, trip up enemy generals and take their stuff for the Crusade, but also trip up unhelpful Crusade officers so it runs more smoothly, for instance. Looking at both sides of the war and making them all fall into your line would definitely be a different role to play, and fitting for a figure of divine comedy. Especially if the traditional alignment for the Trickster would be CN.

#7

It seems like the Mythic paths are powered by the same force that broke the Wardstone, something more artificial/neutral to alignments than Iomedae’s favour. This is why the Dragon’s backstory ties into the dragon that was defending Kanebras, for instance. For the Legend to reject that and go into something that’s unique to mortals, I wonder if that’s closer to the non-Mythic path in the PnP WotR campaign where the dice rolls are more reasonable to account for the PC being normal, or if the challenge is still high but there are new ways to face the campaign, like gear and allies and temporary buffs.

#8

You still get some kind of power from Legend so it is not non-Mythic Path, Owlcat devs even said Legend should be the “craziest” of all Mythic Paths, so I think it will be most powerful of the paths available, perhaps it will be like Gestalt Rules for DnD.

#9

Really? Huh, I hadn’t heard that. That certainly does add a different dimension to the Legend path, and I can see why Owlcat are being tight-lipped about the details in that case. Thanks for the info.

As to Legend being craziest of the paths, in a campaign already built on breaking standard restrictions and going all-in, that does sound amazing. And if you’re right and Legend is similar to Gestalt from DnD, then they’ll fit right in with the rest of the Mythics.

#10

So if there are 10 Mythic Ranks, for the Legend Path you would get 10 extra Levels in another Class ?

While it definitely sounds fun, it doesnt make the character feel Mythic. I mean there would be no Path related Mythic Ability, spellbook, Mythic weapon, only by this Path accessible locations or really anything.

If true, Id rather take any of the Mythic Paths, all of which bring something unique to the table and make me feel truly unique.

I dont think the Legend Path just gets you non-Mythic levels. If the Mythic source really doesnt come from Iomedae like is the case in the WotR Adventure Paths, then that new source must be what the Legend Path is about, whatever the source is.

#11

It would work differently, since you should gain Legend, Dragon or Swarm at 4th or 5th Mythic level. Since you choose one of the 6 mythic paths at the end of chapter 2, but Swarm, Legend and Dragon paths are chosen during (or after?) chapter 3.
I honestly think that one of the features of the Legend will be +2 to all ability points per Legend level.

#12

Well, I didnt play the game, but I thought going Legend was rejecting any of the other Paths. If Im forced to select a Path on my way to Legend then what was the thing with refusing all the other Mythic sources ?

Would be very odd if later in the game Id basically have a few levels of several Mythic Paths and thus a clutter of low powered Feats and Abilities. That wouldnt be ‘crazy’. It would be more like ‘abstrusely’.

If true, I wouldnt like the needed +2 to abilities to make all these low powered features viable.

#13

1st and 2nd is Mythic Hero which is not Path, and at 3rd Mythic level you do not accept power, it is more like after 1st level your power grows after doing some worthy feat, but so far only during 4th you can choose to reject offering of power, that is more or less served on silver platter.

#14

So 1st / 2nd is outside of any Path and 4th has a reject offer. But how am I gonna be a 10th Rank Lich / whatever eventually ? Do the ‘Mythic Hero’ levels get converted to your chosen Path ?

And what happens at 3rd level ? You said only 1st / 2nd are ‘Mythic Hero’ and 4th has the reject option. Does that mean Im forced to select one of the initial 6 Paths at 3rd ? Effectively turning me into a multi-‘Pathed’ character, unless I stick to the initial choice ?

Quite complicated. Will likely cause a lot of confusion for new players and I cant think how it would work with the storyline in mind E.g. start as Lich, then Golden Dragon followed by Legend.

#15

Not exactly, abilities and feats work based on X per Mythic level, not X per ranks in Lich/whatever. Mythic Hero gains low-power abilities that are thematicaly based on 1 of the 6 paths, but have no connetion to actual Mythic Paths, they do not get stronger and have zero consequence later on, they are just gameplay buffs. Most of the stenght of the Mythic on fist 2 levels are from Special Feats that even your companions have access to.

Yes. So far in alpha from what I can see, a way how to become Swarm is only in or after chapter 3. Which is after 3rd Mythic Level.

You do not. You can be 8 rank Lich at max, though things like spell caster level should be decided by your actual Mythic level. Not how many of these are Lich.

Yes but you still get level up to 4th Mythic Level. Since Legend is not accessible in alpha I have no idea what is supposed to actualy happen.

No multi-Path, unless you find a way and want to become Dragon, Swarm or Legend. Meaning if you pick Demon and then at rank 5 you decide you want to be Lich you cannot in any way do that.

1st ML you choose Low powered type of power.
2nd you level up, gain second low power ability, dictated by what you picked at 1st lvl.
3rd you choose Path it can be different to thematic power you have chosen at 1st Mythic level, you need to unlock paths, Demon and Angel have unlock conditions in main story and cannot be missed, unlock condition for all others can be missed.

1 Like
#16

Thanks for all the info. Appreciated !

On the topic at hand it all sounded that Mythic Paths start out very thin with exclusive content because for the 1st half (?) of the game youre still somehow undecided to which Path to select so if there would be exclusive content, even if you did go down a Path, you would still have a chance to miss it.

This leads me to believe the majority of exclusive content will only start after the last possible Path, maybe the Legend Path, was chosen or not, so after youre basically done with the Path choice, meaning in the 2nd half (?) of the game, at the earliest at Mythic Rank 4 because the later Paths are unselectable at Mythic Rank 3.

So the game is basically an open game world until you finalize your choice after which it gets linearly but focusing on your chosen Path, meaning even if you visit the same location as if you had chosen another Mythic Path, youd still be locked to your own Path themed version and no chance to change it unlike in the 1st half (?) of the game.

I presume after that final Path choice the companions that dont align with the chosen Path will leave and others will take over as per your Mythic Path. So that moment is likely a critical event somewhere along the 3 remaining ‘crazy’ Mythic Paths.

#17

You can unlock 4 paths during 1st and 2nd chapter, with quests.
And at the end of 2nd charter you choose one of the paths you unlocked. (Angel and Demon should be always unlocked).

In 3rd chapter you get some exclusive content (few quests that lead to same location in different ways) of the path you have chosen. And unique comments from NPCs about the effect the path has on your leadership and army (Things like " There are rumors that undead were seen among the ranks of your army" for Lich).

Only 3 chapters are in alpha which is probably less than half of the game. So what exactly happens after only devs (and maybe dataminers) know.

#18

At the moment we do not know anything about the other paths. Maybe there are other quests or events early in the game that are not implemented yet.
I GUESS that legend could be if you fail or reject the other paths. Each path has quests and you could fail them or you miss the events that open other paths.

At the moment everything is speculation.

#19

No Legend is only rejecting outside help.
Angel and Demon path are for those who fail to unlock any other.

#20

Still I doubt that any of the special paths, especially legend, will first pick a different path in chapter 2 only to switch or renounce it later.
Rather I think there will be the possibility to not pick a path at the end of chapter 2 and instead wait till later to pick one, both common or on of the later paths.