Better Dialogue Options Than Kingmaker

Greetings all!

I’m currently playing my way through Kingmaker and I’ve been disappointed in the dialogue options given and their mechanical effects they have on the game. Here are the two things I’d hope to see improved in WotR.

Alignment – I would like to see these removed completely in favor more dialog options. My main PC has a Chaotic Good alignment, something I think Paizo has reported as one of the most popular choices and more often than not the dialogue “choices” don’t have this option to choose. It’s frustrating my ability to get into the game when I can’t choose an option that reflects the character’s view. While I don’t expect the complete flexibility of the TTRPG experience, if this is going to be the way the game is run, I expect it to be able to look at what the Player has chosen and make it available. If you can’t make the dialog choices representative of the Player’s chosen alignment, then remove the alignment choices. It hurts immersive experience and creates dissonance.

Skill checks – In the TTRPG version of Pathfinder, other PCs can assist in skill checks. It would be good to add this in WotR. Characters with the skill but not the highest should be able to perform a DC 10 check to see if they helped out and provide a bonus if successful. This is sorely missing from Kingfinder and I can’t see any technical reasons why it wasn’t included. Oddly this appears to be happening during Stealth when adventuring, but no where else. Hopefully this would reduce save scumming as well as provide a more immersive experience as it reflects that a party is helping one another achieve their goals.

Thanks for reading!
NN

2 Likes

Alignment is still going to appear in conversations some, since it’s such a core experience of Pathfinder and if it’s not in conversations then there’s not a lot of other places where alignment appears. But it does look like they are going to change some of how it works - for example, some alignment choices are locked behind a single alignment axis - so you’ll have a “Good” option, an “Evil” option, a “Lawful” option, etc.

1 Like

And there’ll be “non-alignment” options, too. There probably won’t always be all options, obviously. Depending on the situation, there might be everythiong from 0-6 aligned, plus 1-2 not-aligned options, I guess.

If you really want to play a game that has no alignment in it you are better off waiting for BG3 to come out but I do agree with you that we need way more alignment dialogue in WotR

1 Like

Actually Larian changed their mind and BG3 will now have alignment. THough in 5e it is not nerly as importnt mechanically.
Though I doubt they are as stupid as Owlcat and lock decisions behind alignments, I really hope someone makes a mod for WOTR that deletes this garbage mechanic.

Well if the person who made the bag of tricks mod for Kingmaker does the same thing for WotR then your problem will be solved but I am glad to hear that the alignment are going to be in BG3

I definitely agree. What’s the point of having an alignment, when there are no options for the alignment you have chosen? Get rid of them or make sure each conversation has all the options available.

I find the parenthetical with an alignment to be immersion-breaking. I’d remove them.

As for more dialogue options, I’d focus on ensuring that each alignment has an appropriate decision that matches their perspective. I care a lot less about having my character recite the right lines during an uneventful conversation. Fixing that is a lot of work for little gain in large part because it’s difficult to write dialogue for how each person imagines their alignment. A quick skim of the forums shows that reasonable can’t even agree on what an alignment is.

Because it is so hard to find agreement on alignment, I think the game should let players pick their alignment and assume it to be correct unless presented with strong evidence to the contrary. So lots of unaligned dialog options with only a few extreme aligned options. Maybe even a “why did you do that” prompt to explain that you did something questionable for the greater good or whatever. It’s asingle player game so it doesn’t much matter if my interpretation of an alignment is different than yours, with afew things that might not leave any room for doubt without problem, like “i kill the bartender because I’m bored” being a safely evil option.

I’m pretty sure this is an optional toggle.
And for me personally, if major game consequences are going to be locked behind alignment-specific dialog choices, then yes I want to have the option of being able to see this information in those dialog choices.
But I agree that the better route would be to not have major game consequences be locked behind specific alignments.

Well my way of solving this problem would be to make the alignment locked dialog to also have a skills base option so even if you do not have the right alignment you can still pick the dialog with a skill like diplomacy or intimidate

2 Likes

Obviously it didn’t both me enough to check whether there was an optional toggle. Next time that I’m in the game, I’ll check. Thanks for the tip.

I agree with this. For some conversation and pivotal moments in Kingmaker, there were actually alternative non-alignment based options that required high skill checks. For some reason, these usually applied only to Neutral Good like options with exactly the same results. This was frustrating, since I didn’t have access to Lawful Good or Chaotic Neutral specific options as a Neutral Good character. Some of which were more pivotal to the story in large ways. Why is it more flexible to play a Lawful Good character than a Neutral Good or Chaotic Good character? That doesn’t make sense. Why can’t a Neutral Good character not show mercy by choosing the only merciful option locked behind a Chaotic Neutral check?

They should expand skill check dialogue alternatives to all alignment locked dialogue. Having the right alignment for a certain conversation gives you a 100% success option and for everyone else, they have to pass a high skill check challenge, attribute score and/or have the right item etc.

Of course like in Kingmaker, I and many others will just choose the non-alignment skill check option for the experience. Not that there’s anything wrong with that as your character may not have thought of the “perfect” thing to say. A counter to this behavior could be equal experience or more loot for the alignment specific choice.

2 Likes