Best Archer build hands down

Yes, sohai11/ranger9 looks like a good idea.
You can flurry with any weapon and have a pet at your level and some ranger buffs.

Crossbow feels kind of bad because you want also maximum damage per hit if you have so many attacks. Archer means usually using a composite longbow, zen archers can use shortbow because they use fist damage as bow damage.
Its not bad as archer, but I would probably flurry with a fauchard and a pet that can trip. Lots of crits and lots of AoO, especially with teamwork feats.

The benchmark to meet is the pure fighter archer.
A fighter 20 has an attack of about +43/+43/+43/+39/+35/+31/+27/+23 (includes haste, +7 DEX and bracers of dueling, and the obvious mythic choices for archers), auto-crits on 17-20 and does damage x4. It does not matter if the target has spell or energy resistance or immunity to precision damage.
The damage of 1d8+18 does not look too impressive, but with a 20% chance to crit he will get a crit for 4d8+72 (average 90) each round, sometimes two.

If a build cannot beat that, then it is not the best archer :wink:
The only candidates are zen archer, ranger or slayer bases I think. Anyone using magic as part of his damage will not do much against the demons.

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How are you getting 8 attacks and only 3 full AB ones?

4 from BAB, 2 from rapid shot and one from manyshot, plus the 8th from haste. Maybe I miscalculated the numer of maximum AB shots…1st is max, rapid shot is also max, manyshot fires two at max…yep, it should be four at maximum bonus, my bad.
I left out deadly aim, btw, since many demons have high AC. If it is not that high as Playful Shadow’s (51), I’ll take the penalty for better damage.

4+2+1=7. The baseline is 7 shots with 4 at full AB.

This is my Lann at level 12 mythic 4.
image

Ok, here’s what I’m thinking.

Battle Spirit Spirit Hunter Shaman, with enough Loremaster for Transformation (doesn’t work yet, but should per the documentation).

Spirit Hunter can add Bane, and three elements (in addition to other effects as needed) to her bow, pre-cast Divine Power (and any Size increases that actually work for bows) and then Transformation to max BAB.

Eventually it gets Greater Weapon Focus just like a Fighter.

The triple element item is important because we want it to set off Elemental Barrage for insane extra divine damage every .66 hits (it triggers 3 times for every two hits with 3 elements, even into resistance or immunity).

Plus all the other Archery mythic stuff that doesn’t suck.

Unlike a Magus, it’s still a 9th level full caster and can cast Divine Power on top of Transformation to fix its BAB… but it still retains the Magus weapon buff to enable elemental barrage, PLUS Bane.

Edit - Elf for free proficiencies and extra spell pen, because it gives up no caster levels so why not.

apologies for not responding sooner as this portion was overlooked.

keep in mind, mythic weapon finesse is working with… everything. take weapon finesse: mythic and you add your dex modifier to damage if it exceeds your str modifier, period. use a longspear or a warhammer or crossbow makes no difference to owlcat.

so with the ranger/sohei crossbow archer, strength is a dump stat, your dex modifier applies to your crossbow damage and you have the expanded threat range with crossbows, not to mention the maxed animal companion. you get the extra ki strike and flurry attacks, have full bab and while favoured enemies are completely borked at the moment, you will eventually have nice bonuses against at least one sub category of demons. additionally, if you want an archer main character, going the crossbow route is a worthwhile consideration if for no other reason than you are likely making lann a longbow haver.

the crossbow option might not be the best archer, but bad?

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They did.
I don’t know about double throwing axes but for melee weapons it works.
My Greybor has a Demon’s Terror (+2 speed radiant flail) in each hand:

1 extra attack at Full BAB in each hand.

Yes, I remember I reported this as bug in the alpha.
I guess it should only work for finesse weapons but it did work for everything.

That never worked for me with melee weapons. Although now that I think about it, maybe I tested haste + off-hand speed weapon. Does it actually give an extra attack in combat? If it does, please report it.

It depends against what u are up.
If u go against heavy armored enemies, you want high Attack.
If u go against low armored enemies (casters and other archers), u want more damage becouse hitting them is not an issue.
A base full rogue will outdamage any full warrior due to his +10d6 sneak attack.
A fighter lvl 14 will not hit Playful Darkness on Core (AC 62) while Eldricht Archer lvl 12 with Dimensional Strike will probabily hit him (You meet this optional boss around lvl 13-14).
I read that somewhere there is a boss with AC 82 so fighter with +43 attack will not hit him.

Tested with non speed weapon in main hand (3 attacks) and speed weapon in offhand (4 attacks).
Casted Haste and got the fourth attack with the main hand.

In combat or on the character sheet? When I tested it I did get the attack on the character sheet, but it didn’t really work in combat and disappeared from the sheet when I moved the weapons between slots.

What are the devs thinking?
I do not know these enemies, but they might put as well a huge massive rock in your way.
Even optimized chars cannot reach those numbers and I guess those enemies have also spell resistance, elemental resistance and immunity to many status effects.

I just looked at PnP rules and in a quick search I found as hardest enemy the demon lord Pazuzu (CR30, AB 54, AC 48, SR 41). I am not sure if players are even supposed to kill such a creature.

Playful Darkness is an optional encounter that doesn’t even have good loot - at this point, its more of a challenge encounter that forces you to deal with it in non-standard ways (a combat puzzle, if you will).

If you’re specced into Mythic Spell Pen, with spell pen items and buffs, it still takes half damage from a lot of offensive spells - including positive energy from Heal (I had next to no trouble landing these).

Spells like walls and such that just deal damage regardless are also good.

Its not an unwinnable encounter, its just ridiculous. Which is fine, because you have to go off the main path to find it and can just walk away if your party can’t win here, and all you lose is a small (but not meaningless) chunk of exp.

Yes, it is supposed to be a challenge, or rather a riddle, for players to figure out, in a cRPG, where players have a lot more control than in PnP, including the ability to reload :wink: Kingmaker also has inflated stats compared with the PnP values.

In chapter 4, there is one optional boss with AC 76 and touch AC 16. That one has an AoE attack that drains 12 points of strength from everybody, so you don’t have that much time to kill it (there isn’t much room to escape that attack).

Usually authors put these stats in there so that the DM can give their parties a hint to not try at all, or at least not a frontal approach.

The final final boss in chapter 4 (you know whom I am talking about) with AC 84 and touch AC 45, is not optional, but you don’t need to actually kill him, you only need to survive a couple of rounds (or so I heard, as I killed him in round 2).

So, most players can go along on normal, ignoring the most difficult optional bosses, while expert players will race to create builds and parties that can tackle everything on higher difficulties, everybody wins :slight_smile:

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Aren’t all the demons immune to fire?

OK, so I have to think of these enemies as something similar to the optional bosses in JRPGs, like Omega Weapen in some Final Fantasies. The devs give you a monster with some million HP and attacks that deal more damage than players can possibly have.

This approach is quite unusual for western RPGs. BG2 had lots of optional fights. One of the hardest is the twisted rune ( I think it was a lich, an archmage, a beholder and a vampire lord in the same room). They were hard because you fought several different enemies at once, each of them had powerful abilities on their own, but they did not have extremely good AC and HP.
I have beaten Kingmaker on normal with all optional bosses ( I think the dragon in the lair next to the castle of knives and the spawn of rovagug were the most powerful). They have high stats, but you can reach those numbers with some pre buffing.

I play Solasta at the moment and I like it. I do not miss endless pre buffing or that the game turns to a mini game about stacking bonusses to absurd hights. I do not play PnP, but if I did, I would prefer 5E over pathfinder. Keeping track of all those numbers without a computer that does the calculating for you must be a nightmare.
Yes, Solasta is quite easy on the default difficulty. (OK, I spend ages re rolling the stats)
But I greatly respect the game for correctly implementing the rules, including different forms of movement (fly, spiderwalk) or the use of light (disadvantage in dark places when you have no light source, vampires flee from your light spells) plus stuff like spell components, cover, ready actions, proper use of reactions, counterspell and so on.

If you want to deal elemental damage in WotR, you’ll have to take the mystic abilitiy “ascendant element”, this will ignore resistances and immunities.