All late game mythic paths should remove or alter the crusade

During development we were told that late game paths have a big effect on the story and endgame.
Mechanics aside, the Swarm certainly fulfils that promise with you doing the rest of the game, including the crusade, alone with your swarm.

Other paths though do not change anything. For gold dragons the game goes on like normal like nothing happened.

Imo every late game path (except Legend) should remove your companions and the crusade system and replace it with something else. That doesn’t mean they have to die or disappear forever, but become NPCs instead.

As dragon you should turn over the the crusade to whoever you trust, leave your companions and recruit some other dragons of various colours (or depending on your decision kill them and steal their hoard for power) and with them attack the threshold.
As devil you should rally hell and Cheliax and lead them to victory while Mendev and your old companions stand by and watch (maybe keep Regil as a servant).

Even Legend should transform the crusade somewhat, making it a grand alliance of mortals, attracting all kinds of people. Pirates from the Shackles, people from Osirion, Quadria, Numeria, Pathfinders, etc. with several diplomatic quests, etc.

Tl;dr All late game paths should alter the late game in the way the swarm does. Maybe even more so when Owlcat gets around to improve Act 5 (which means also improving the swarm content of course).


All of that would have been awesome. And all of that is overly ambitious. It could have been done if we had like 3-4 mythic paths in the game. But not when we have basic 6 + 3 late game + 1 secret. Too much content to create for too many workhours, too many ways to introduce new bugs, too few people would actually bother to check out alternative paths, so all in all costs outweigh the benefits by a colosal margin.

IMO, they should focus on fixing what there is, maybe making some more content for paths which are clearly an afterthought (e.g. Gold Dragon) instead of investing resources in that.

Hate being a negative Nancy, but it’s important to acknowledge the reality of the situation instead of daydreaming.

Only late game paths were promised to be game altering, so in the end you only need 5 variation of Act 5. One for each late game path and one for the rest. You can maybe even cut it down to 4 when Legend is just the common path with a lot of reactivity and modifications

But I will also add one thing - these are some splendid ideas, but not for this game. Perhaps a sequel could introduce more branching out and opportunities to roleplay.

I agree that all the late-game mythic paths should alter the storyline and campaign mechanism, but not necessarily the party.

For the gold dragon, classically, dragons RARELY associate with each other, especially in large numbers, but associating with people to lead an alliance or collective to accomplish their goals is routine. I’d love to see the campaign fundamentally stay the same, but you get tons of super-powerful dragon-rider units. Dragonrider archers that combo bow shots with dragon’s breath, dragonrider spellcasters that doublecast between the dragon and the spellcaster, etc. The plot could involve you getting into dragon politics, needing to resolve conflicts between various metallic dragons and oppose chromatic dragons, preferably without direct confrontation.

For the Legend, it’d be awesome if all your party members get some of that legendary power, so their level cap goes up to 25 or 30 and their xp gain goes up similarly. Plot wise, yes, this should be the paragon of humanity (or elf-anity, or whatever) rallying the mortal races. I’d love to see WAY more diplomacy events, short trips (one map or two) to different regions (through teleportation), all your generals get the Combat Maneuvers V (or whatever the highest level is) so all your armies can be massive combos of units, you can recruit (not hire mercenaries) 9 different units instead of 3 different units, etc.

For the Devil path, yes, I’d expect lots to do with Chelliax and with the Nine Hells and their denizens. Recruit armies of not just Hellnights, but actual devils. Maybe be able to pull in other Lawful types that would begrudgingly help the devils fight off the demons.

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There is always the option of a Enhanced Edition like with Kingmaker.
From what I heard some devs already have been throwing around bigger ideas like altering the way mythic ranks are gained.

Only? Mind you at the same time you would have to support all the other variations with fixes. Not to mention regression introduced by such late changes would be insurmountable.

This ship has sailed, I am afraid, and it sailed before Alpha. This game is in public beta now (I refuse to acknowledge this as a full version, it’s so bad). Following your suggestion when Owlcats have boat-freeking-loads on their hands would be irresponsible and outright insane and would actually hurt the game in the long run since it would never get into stable state.

Such extension of the game are somewhat possible in games with subscription model when the devs would have stable stream of revenue to fund future expansions and alterations. But that’s not the case with this game.

You know that there’s a bunch of issues in Kingmaker that have never been fixed to this day, including very unstable port to consoles? Besides Kingmaker did not have alterations to the degree you are suggesting - merely fixes of quests, some ease-of-use features and 3 DLC.

Oh God. Oh no. Someone please stop them. Finish what you started, THEN consider new projects. I would not mind playing with mythic paths in the form you are suggesting in some kind of sequel of this game.

Also, let me tell you - we have been criticising uneven Mythic paths with bugged abilities since Alpha. “Release” has come and gone, and many things about them are still not fixed (compare power levels of Aeon and Lich, then add to that half of Aeon’s spells literary do not work at all). So whatever their ambitions are be aware they are not as receptive to suggestions as they say they are.

The Enhanced Edition will certainly come after the DLCs are finished, so 1 or 2 years? At least that is my expectation.

These all great ideas especially the last three, so much in so i think you should keep those in your back pocket. Also it was very apparent as is they released it in this buggy state they would have moved all those path to early game paths with such content had they the time and didn’t have to release it when they did.

The age of actual expansions is long dead but i could see all of this would be feasible if introduced in a meaty expansion not dlc. but alas.

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Exactly. great ideas.

I think they said from the beginning that the stretch goal paths would come late.
That itself is not a problem if those paths would be as story changing as they promised to cram a lot of story and special mechanics into Act 5 as possible. The swarm already does that (but suffers from bad mechanics)
The other paths sadly don’t which is why they fall flat (in addition to mechanical problems).

That Owlcat generally ran out of time and neglected Act 5 is obvious and compounds the problem. For example I don’t believe they planned to reduce the Gold Dragon story to a single fetch quest.
Another problem is though that they want “one mythic for every alignment” and thus shoehorned the GD into Neutral Good even though they are usually LG. And that they have such a simplistic “redeem everyone” view of NG which has nothing to do with how dragons behave. Its no wonder that Hal is one of the most hated NPCs out there and the GD path is just more of that.

can you link that information?

What information do you mean exactly?

Here is a 2 year old Reddit AMA where Owlcat already uses the term late game mystic path and that they are supposed to be “a little more crazy” than the others.
And I certainly do not feel any craziness from the Gold Dragon

I sadly can’t find the “other stream” he mentioned.

They also said the Legend mythic path will be harder to find and we all know that in the game its shoved into your face and Gold Dragon is very easy to find.
Only the Swarm really fulfils the promises about late game paths they made.

throwing around bigger ideas like altering the way mythic ranks are gained.

yeah dragon was so disappointing it was like a slap in the face, a WoW style fetch quest? are friggin kidding me? i’ll wait for modders tbh to fix that if they can

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Sadly that I only have heard 2nd hand on the discord server.

it’s… so awful i had so much high hopes for dragon but you literally get nothing. not even an adviser. go here, pick up, fetch quests

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