Alignment choices should only affect one axis

Currently an alignment dialogue option, even when just labelled as just good for example affects both alignment axis pushing you towards good and neutral. This poses a problem for example paladins which can lose access to their abilities because they are “too good” which makes them slide into NG territory because they did too many Good options.
It doesn’t help that most Lawful options are far from what a paladin would do and are more in line with Hellknights and Hulrun.

A good option should only push you towards good and not affect the law-chaos axis at all and there should be more options for two axis movements which are clearly labelled as for example Lawful Good or Chaotic Neutral.

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Agreed. Seems like a coding issue. Instead of options giving you neutral good it should be good.

My toon doesn’t have to keep alignment but I’m even finding it difficult to keep to chaotic good. I keep switching between neutral and chaotic every few other dialogue.

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Alignment options do only affect one axis. However, the alignment diagram is a circle, and the borders of it will curve inward. If you are at the far extreme of Lawful Neutral (depicted as vertically perfect center, but horizontally extreme left on the alignment diagram), any Good option will slide you up along the edge of the circle, pushing you a little tiny bit away from Lawful.

Basically, an option pushes you in a straight line toward that alignment’s cardinal direction (up for Good, down for Evil, left for Lawful, right for Chaotic), but that straight line gets curved by the edge of the circle if you’re already at one extreme edge and choose any option on the other axis.

I’m not sure if that’s intended or not, but it kind of makes sense – when you’re that extremely Lawful Neutral, any Good or Evil decision you make will divert some of your focus from Law.

Well, the main problem with the current solution is this:

Also, [Lawful] in this game can be some kind of abomination - downright Lawful Evil at times, when you unceremonially kill off people for minor transgressions or threaten someon with force.

An example in Lost chapel, when you find prisoners (I am paraphrasing):

[Lawful] Stand with me or it’s court martial for you.

Why not?:

[Lawful] Remember your vows, warriors! For honor!

It kind of makes playing Lawful Good Angel, an experience full of cognitive dissonance.

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That meme is a vast hyperbole. You need to consistently make Good choices and never any Lawful ones to shift to Neutral Good. Law is an inherently harsh thing, but harsh isn’t Evil and Good isn’t “nice.”

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It’s a good meme because it happened to a lot of paladin players, including me. Even when you do sometimes lawful and never chaotic options, you can end up in NG, which is hilarious and a real problem

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Not really, you should be acting just as Lawful as you are Good, if you want to stay Lawful Good. If you are too Good and neglect Order, you will drift to Neutral Good. The amount of choices you need to make in a lopsided direction is significantly larger than the meme implies. No Paladin who is paying any attention at all to their alignment will be surprised by a shift to Neutral Good, and if you aren’t paying attention, there are Scrolls of Atonement you can buy from Rathimus, Kyado or Arsinoe that return your alignment to the state it was in at 1st level.

Paying careful attention to your behaviour and living up to your code is part of playing a Paladin. It is possible for a Paladin to be too Good and not Lawful enough to remain a Paladin, and this mechanic reflects that. It is accurate and should remain as-is.

This is nonsense in face of all the Lawful-evil choices masquerading as Lawful. A lawful good character may want to arrest criminals and send them to prison or to the “Condemned” unit, not outright make “an example” out of them in front of the army. But nope, from time to time you have to pick those evil choices just to stay Lawful Good.

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I’ll respectfully disagree. Execution of traitors and deserters caught in the act is very much a Lawful Neutral thing to do. It’s the law, the penalty for treason is death. Golarion doesn’t have modern sensibilities like the death penalty always being wrong.

Ahahahaha, the most PC world ever does not have modern sensibilities?

But let’s say I’ll aggree. It might be Lawful Neutral thing to do, but is it Lawful Good thing to do?

I have been playing Aeon, and I must say the level of contradiction is strong there. You are Aeon - guardian of law, and time-space continuum. Changing the past so that it benefits you - totally true Aeon lawful action. Not killing sentient mix of demon and qlippoth for the crime of existing but punishing its creator instead (and in alternatives the creator walks away)? Go away you renegade.

Your version of Lawful Neutral strikes as interpretation from someone living in Lawful Evil society. :stuck_out_tongue:

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It doesn’t have to be a Lawful Good thing to do, it only has to be a Lawful thing to do. That’s what it’s tagged as in the dialogue. You’re being disingenuous now, not to mention abrasively condescending. I think we’re done here.

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As opposed to you? Fair enough. Have a great day.

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On reflection, it seems I overstepped. I apologise.

I am a rather thick-skinned guy who enjoys banter, pulling each other’s leg and strong definitive statements. My intention was not to hurt, but to have direct, somewhat aggressive exchange of ideas. It seems it is not to your liking. Fair enough. Again, have a good day.

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I am playing a Neutral Character and have extrem problems to stay there, because there are no neutral answers (like in Kingmaker). I try to take answers with no alignment or try to strike a balance between lawful and chaotic. But with good and evil, I can’t find a balance. So i end up neutral good i suppose.