Absolute Garbage

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Freedom means you can build your character and party however you want, not that the builds will work without any problem. In order to make them work, you need to understand the mechanics of the game and use that knowledge, along with some patience and problem solving, to overcome difficult encounters. If that’s not fun to you then Kingmaker just isn’t a game you’re meant to play because that challenge is one of the reasons a lot of people, myself included, play games like it in the first place. The devs didn’t waste your money, you just bought a game without looking into it first and are now throwing a hissy fit on a forum because you’re butthurt that it’s too hard for you.


My first party failed miserably. It was because I didn’t understand the PF system. Some of that was because Owlcat didn’t include a tutorial for new players who were unfamiliar with the PF system, which has some unintuitive concepts (like BAB). Another part was that I didn’t know what numerical targets I should hit, ie is 20 AC good, is 60 etc. The final (and largest) part is that I didn’t know how to build characters well. I invested the time learning the system and it is incredibly rewarding for the time investment. Admittedly, learning all the intracies is fun for me, but it won’t be fun for everyone.

To your specific problem, you should be able to kill Harulka with a 34 AC tank. It’s not laughable, although obviously you could have more or less. I suspect the problem isn’t your tank, but either access to or use of the wrong spells or overall low damage. I’m happy to offer pointers if you’d post some more details, ie class composition of party.

Just a friendly reminder to u.

If someone gets banned, then the admins had to have a good reason for this and after looking to this post I know now, why they did that. Normally I woud help and ask u to go into more detail, so this forum and I can help u to find some entertainment in this game, because-see- there are a lot of people, who beat that game with some exotic character builds on a lot of different difficulties. BUT!!!
I wont tolerate insulting Owlcatgames by wishing them get beheaded´based on a bad experience. I suggest you change your language to a more appropriate tone or you will get reported.
If u do that, we may find a way to get u closer to the pathfinder system and its world. It has much to offer, If u are willing to get help.

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That’s fine. Just admit that this title was not meant for you then and move on. :hugs:
Or just take it easy and ask for help within our friendly community that can give you some tips to get through it. Your choice. Just don’t be rude or wish any ill on people if you wonder why you would get banned again for “expressing an opinion”.

It actually is NOT impossible on normal. It is maybe bit hard fight but you can beat it way harder (core) ruleset.

You need spells and buffs. You should (I recommend) to use dispel magic to take away some of they buffs. Haste is quite usefull for your party. If you use hold moster spell that make things allso easier. Maybe stoneskin and so on.

Some people use huge amount of summons, that is one route to fight that encounter allso. You CAN use tank if you want to. There are many ways. Try to look from youtube where people with LESS AC then your 34 do that encounter.

Is game a challenge? Yes. That is one of the reasons why I and my bet is quite many love it. It is not one of these “no matter what you do you will see end text after 8 hour” point & click action RPG’s what are kind of popular now days (there is nothing wrong for that).

But it is important to understand before you buy this game that yes, it is based from Pathfinder ruleset, it is WAY easier in normal mode but still more complex then most computer games. IT is pretty much as hard to get into as Baldur’s Gate were back at a time (because yes, it is allso based from real Pen & Paper RPG system called AD&D 2:nd edition).

Wow. That was rude and way out of proportion…

However, it might be a cautionary tale for the devs. These days we have a large crowd of gamers that are too proud to play on easy, but will badmouth games as much as they can if they can´t win in medium with little effort instead of learning from mistakes until they can win.

While i don´t agree with this mindset of “medium has to be the new easy”, bad reviews (if many) affect sales, so an easier normal in WotR than it was on KM, or at least a tutorial made to guide by hand those without familiarity with PF rules might be better for WotR future.

Nevertheless, just trying to help Owlcat. Last thing i want is to support or defend behavior like the OP.


The devs confirmed they are definitively going to make a tutorial for WotR to guide new players like OP to be more familiar with the Pathfinder system. :relaxed:

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Kingmaker asks much more from the player than other visually similar CRPGs like Pillars or DOS2. Depending on the type of player you are, it is definitely possible that you personally cannot win on normal unless you look up and use optimized builds. However there are plenty of players who after learning and adapting are able to win on unfair without using optimized builds. The solution is ultimately to set the difficulty to a level that is commensurate with where you are as a player, not to blame the devs if you struggle to handle normal difficulty.

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My first playthrough I didn’t do any crazy min maxing (since I made a paladin and needed basically all the stats except dex which I still put at 12) and did fine with the game. Hagrulka is supposed to be difficult and is more of an opponent your supposed to take out quickly and use debuffs/enchantments on rather than tank. I understand the game can be frustrating at times, but all the reviews to the game say that it is a difficult game so that’s your fault for buying a game that is supposed to be difficult. Turn down the difficulty, look for a different strategy with your casters, look at your items/scrolls, etc. Optomized builds are for people who beat the game Solo on Unfair (which I’ve yet to do, but will one day lol) but most builds work as long as you have the right companions to compliment your MC, and didn’t screw yourself by lowering your CON down to the point where just getting looked at will get you killed. You have the right to your opinion and all but you could have left out the beheading thing, since that is very disrespectful and honestly most (if not all) people on these forums will disagree about the combat system being shitty. Look for help constructively next time without insults/ respectfully.

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I played on hard to start and met a…chromatic/prismatic manticore (one of
blurry ones) and a greater owlbear in a random encounter at LVL 3. This was immediately after release when there were some balance issues and Chapter 5 was uncompletable, but I definitely cranked down that difficulty. LOL…LVL 8-12 monsters in a LVL 3 random encounter…

Anyone remember Ratnook Hill. That was murder for Act I…

I remember when I had to use guides to get through the oc of Neverwinter Nights. Just this year I was able to beat Swordflight Chapter One with a pure strength-based halfling fighter. To be fair, I didn’t read the manual for NWN when I got it, heh.

failing and learning is fun.
if not skyrim is that way.

Well stated, Chuckle.

Pathfinder is a game that takes a decent time investment just to familiarize yourself with the rule set and mechanics, let alone the time it takes to master the game in practice.

For many, the complicated nature of the game is part of the immersion and what makes it so engrossing and rewarding. For others, it will not be for them, and that’s ok. There are plenty of RPG’s that can provide the experience they’re looking for; perhaps one that will allow them to slap points and abilities together haphazardly and still have a functional character that can breeze through the content, but Kingmaker is not one of those games. For yet others, I imagine there’s a subset of players who deliberately create ‘broken’ characters simply for the added challenge. To each their own.

Thank you, Owlcat, for a beautiful and rewarding experience; I can feel the love and passion that went into Kingmaker.